Considering RS3 as DD, few questions...
 

Haven't had an Audi for a couple yrs, so feeling the need to scratch the itch. And also tired of my ponderous lethargic current DD, a '17 GLE43 Coupe. I want something fairly small and nimble now, but need the 4 doors as I occasionally have to pick up/drop off my two small children.

There are no local RS3s for me to test, unfortunately, so was curious how many of you compared it with an S3 back to back, and what your thoughts were? Anything else you cross shopped, like the M2 (I had an M4 a couple yrs ago which I never really liked)?

Thanks!

I shopped the RS3. Great car, just didn't want to part with that much cash. I found that a 3-4 grand thrown at a nice used S3 will give you stock RS3 performance at half-price. That's what I ended up doing anyway. If they had had the RS3 available as I wanted it for european delivery when I asked for it I would have got the RS3, but now glad they didn't come through. I also shopped M2, but it just feels cheaper to me somehow, nobody was budging on price and I like AWD. Same issue with non-availability when I wanted for euro delivery on the M2. First try at a 0-60 in the S3 without launch control, a passenger and slightly uphill still got 3.6 seconds (this fairly recently). My first Audi was a 5000S (manual, Quattro) too. Also had a 99/01/02 A4 and still have the R8 which is slower than the S3

I had the opportunity to take out both the S3 and RS3 on a road trip nearly back to back. I did at least 250 miles in either one on the typical roads I drive, including fun twisty mountain/canyon roads. Stock for stock, the RS3 is faster once you push it and sounds better, but other than that in more normal driving you'll be hard pressed to notice much of a difference. There's a YouTuber who made a video a while back after he took delivery of his RS3 and decided to sell it a week later, because it didn't live up to his expectations. He owned an S3 prior to that and his main complaint was that the RS3 just isn't faster in regular driving until you push it and wind it out to redline, but his point was that's not how he drives on a daily basis, so for most of his driving it didn't drive any different than his prior S3. He got kinda ripped a new one over that video by many posters, but after I had the chance to drive both, I fully understood where he came from. This is a complaint that I have about the current RS models in general. They just don't offer much of a unique experience over their S siblings. I currently own a '13 RS5 as my DD and the reason I like it is because the engine and driving experience has more in common with the R8 than the S5. Driving that high revving V8 is just a very different driving experience compared to the supercharged V6 and worth every penny. The current RS models are largely just faster S models, but generally offer the same driving experience and you can't really tell that you are driving an RS when just driving around normally. The RS3 and TTRS at least still have a unique engine, but both the I4 turbo and I5 turbo have too much turbo lag for my taste. I'm not a friend of small turbo engines, because they have no oomph off boost, so you always have that power hole after getting on the throttle, followed by a disproportional power surge. The M2 Competition is an interesting proposition. It's clearly much more of a drivers car and it now has the same engine as the M4. I liked the M4, but ultimately as a complete package it was lacking for me, and I currently have a '19 C63 S Coupe on order for European Delivery at the beginning of May. It still offers the kind of unique driving experience over its lower siblings that I so like about my RS5 and still has a V8.

Thanks for the input guys. I don't need a super well handling high revving car for my DD, I Have the .2 3RS for that, mainly want a sporty nimble cruiser for my daily commute (30 miles each way on mostly highway/rural rds). Not being a young buck anymore, though, I'm used to my heated massaging seats lol, so I'm thinking I may have to go RS5 or wait for the new S6 or RS6?

No advice on cross-shopping as I was actually there testing a q7 when i test drove the s3 but no regrets--fell in love with it for the same reason you want one. 4 and 7 year olds need hauling, and i like "spirited" driving and having a small vehicle is great for picking up some cramped parking spaces in downtown ramps. More than fast enough and handles snow and ice great for a low car. (winter/summer wheels for me--no all seasons). We ended up with a win win situation as my wife got a new Outback and I got the s3 instead of me staying in my super practical but insanely boring impreza (i've never hated driving more in my life than in that thing) and she getting a large lux suv. I mean she wanted the outback to begin with but i hated my subaru so much i was resisting the idea of getting another one, even if she was driving it most of the time.

i love launching it on the on-ramps and hearing my kids yell "do it again!".

Yes, RS have upgraded internals to cope with the higher output and they do have differently tuned software for things like ESP. Much of that only makes a difference if you drive it close to the limits, which a lot of folks don't really do or don't have the opportunity to do. So then it comes down to how much a difference can be felt during normal driving and that's where the current RS models feel too close to their S siblings, IMO. This is based on my experience driving them all for extended periods. The RS3 and TTRS at least do have a unique engine that gives them a unique character, but if you move up the line up, the RS brand is being diluted. The 2.9TT shares the block and many parts with the 3.0T in the S4/5. It has a smaller bore, which makes it a 2.9 instead of a 3.0 and it gets a second turbo, but something like 80-90% are shared. Also contrary to popular believes it's a mostly Audi developed engine donated to Porsche for the Panamera S, not the other way around, and the all-new upcoming S6/7 will get the same 2.9TT engine. Having the RS5 share the engine with the S6 and S7 doesn't quite sit right with me. Just makes the RS5 a baby S6/7. Due to the cost cutting at VAG, Audi is currently in charge of the V6 developments and Porsche handles the V8s. There's currently no Audi with a Porsche engine. Calling RS models baby Porsches is quit a stretch. They share nothing with a Porsche. The all-new RS6 and RS7 may get a Porsche V8, but they could also get a higher output version of the 2.9TT. Nothing has been leaked or confirmed yet. I would be exited again about the RS brand if they were in fact baby Porsches. Nothing would make me more interested again than Porsche donating their engines and PDK to Audi, but as it stands, RS models have Audi or VW engines, are built on Audi or VW platforms, and have VW or ZF transmissions.

As for turbo lag, the 2.0T does have turbo lag despite everybody trying to say otherwise. I've driven this engine in so many incarnations all the way up to the current ones and they lag. I happened to drive the S3 at 9000ft elevation for example and it was horrible. It required disproportional throttle input just to get off the line, and then it was met with a huge power surge once the turbo spooled up. I had to explain to my passengers that I'm not trying to drag race from stop light to stop light and that it is the car making it very difficult to start smoothly. Once the turbo is spooling, its fine. But even at sea level where I live there is lag from a stop and from off throttle. Since I DD a naturally aspirated engine and am used to the immediate response, any lag is quite noticeable.

Great discussion. Wish I had an RS3 around here I could test drive. Swung by local Audi dealer, they have a couple RS5 SBs coming in from port I'll test drive one in a couple weeks and see. Kind of bloated specs, though, 95k stickers. The new S6 will also have the same 2.9TT engine as the RS5 correct? And I would imagine the car wouldn't be that much heavier than the 4k lb RS5. I may just wait for that if it ends up being similar in price to the RS5 SB, which is likely. Decisions decisions... :)

I don't mind turbo lag, but I probably wouldn't tune/flash the car and make it worse either. I do really like the idea of a "bespoke" engine in the TTRS/RS3 cars.

superswiss: I don't find the S3 to have any turbo lag. I think what you are experiencing is a software lag. The throttle and transmission programming really conspire against you. Drives me nuts, but its not the turbo IMO. TCU tune and Sprintbooster type thing for the throttle programming should help. I did the TCU, now need to try a throttle pedal remap. I'm sure driving at altitude exacerbates the lag that is there, and drivability in general so could be true in your location but I don't see it here at sea level.

I test drove the rs3 back to back with the s3 while shopping around. Drove the RS3 then the S3 and then the RS3 again because I couldnt get enough of it. I put a deposit down that day. The RS3 is a much more special feeling car. The S3 to me feels like any quick small sedan (honestly I fealt like there were better options than the s3 for less money...). Easy to whip around but not much soul to it. I got my RS3 at I think around 6% off msrp and a super low finance rate and with that alone if I sell my car right now I pretty much break even even though ive driven nearly 6000 miles. The RS3s are holding their value much better than S3s right now. If you can get an RS3, get it!

I upgraded from an S3 to the RS3, and would do it again. I do think the RS3 with the fixed suspension is a good sports sedan. Compared to a GT3, you'd be frustrated, It's still an A3 at heart, a good A3, but still a small 'entry-level' car. there's no heads-up display, there's no rear heating controls and no rear heated seats for the kids, the AWD setup is still a Haldex setup. the windows take a long time to clear in winter, the side windows freeze up at nothing. it tries to be a sports car and a GT, and doesn't pull either off. Depends how you want to use the car and what you need. I wanted AWD for heavy winter mountain driving. I'm keeping it for at least 3 years, where I upgraded my S3 as soon as possible. The Alfa would be an interesting cross comparison if you live next to the dealer, along with the M2 Comp, C63, A45, and maybe stretch for an M5/E63? I liked the RS3 concept car with the 600hp electric motors - it's a great time to be into cars.

I'm not expecting it to handle like my 991.2 GT3 RS at all, I'm looking for a DD hot hatch, short wheel base, torquey and nimble, not a track beast, something that makes me hearken back to my youth and my Stage 2 B5 S4. :)

I had an M4, modded it, tracked it, never loved it. I've had the NA 6.2L C63, pondered the new 4L turbo one but not that interested in it either, too heavy. I have little to no interest in M5/E63....overpowered, heavy, numb mid size sedans, been there, done that.

I'm prolly going to put a deposit down on an RS3 allocation tomorrow (build locks in next few weeks, estimated May delivery). I can always back out, and I'll keep doing a little hunting, but I think it's what I'm looking for based on what I've read. Just wish I could test drive one lol

I had a couple 3 B5's. I think the A/S/RS 3's are a good spiritual successor to the B5, but much faster and not as good handling

Would you say the RS3 is as nose heavy and understeery as the B5 S4?

Honestly though anything would probably feel nimble c/w the GLE43C, I tried to turn myself into a middle aged SUV guy but I just can't lol.

Where did you get these dates from? My understanding is the RS3 is currently on production hold until later this year. Orders being put in based on some other threads here are getting production dates of August with a possible September/October delivery the earliest. Word is that Audi can't make the current engine comply with WLTP and they are working on a new compliant engine.

I've never driven a B5, but yes, the RS3 understeers, courtesy of the FWD biased haldex quattro system. It's mechanically limited and can't send more than 50% of torque to the rear, unless the front tires have less traction. You'll find that it doesn't rotate under throttle in corners and needs to be driven like an FWD car. Foot off throttle to shift the weight to the front and make the tail light, rotate and then get back on the throttle. I really recommend you drive one first, but I understand that might be difficult. I did a comparison thread between the TTRS and RS3 a while back and the TTRS drives much better, while still suffering from the Haldex system. But it all depends on what you are really looking for. The RS3 is a nice DD if you don't plan on pushing it. It rides very comfortable. Also, my experience is with the magnetic suspension, which is part of the problem. With the fixed suspension it supposedly handles better, but will be less comfortable as a DD.

That's what I was told by my Brand Specialist, gonna chat w/ him in an hour or two and will post anything different. He may of course find out when he goes to submit it that it's on production hold, lol.

I was just curious about the handling, honestly I don't plan on pushing it much in corners on the street so it isn't a big concern for me. Def sticking w/ the mag suspension.

Yeah, its pretty nose heavy. I've got an S3, but the RS3 is even heavier in the nose. As a daily driver it won't matter really. You don't notice it until you get past 8/10ths but when you really flog it in the corners its just not very cooperative. You can tune some of that out. Definitely go for the staggered tires as 235 is nowhere near enough tire up front. I added camber plates up front (actually pretty much the whole 034 catalog), a stiffer rear bar with heim jointed end links and next step will be wider front tires (will go up from 255 to 265 at least) and toe out the rear tires a bit from the stock setting. I also changed the haldex setting to maximum rear traction which I really like. Took off hard this morning and the rear end wiggled struggling for grip (Stage II+). Not sure if I'll get an RS3 in a few years, or skip and go right to the eTron GT

I haven't found anything else I want more yet either. I did prefer the feel of the TTRS over the RS3 by more of a margin than I'd of thought - it felt much tighter, but I already have a 2 seater and believe 2 seaters should be more intense imo. There's far too many very front-heavy sports sedans out there. as some of said, I went with the staggered 255's up front which probably helped some. Coming form an S3, driving the S3 like a fwd car wasn't such a change. a stage 2 RS3 would be an impressive beast, after 18 months I'm pretty much used to the factory setup.

I went from a 2017 S3 to a 2018 RS3 DD in November, after my husband picked up a 2018 TT RS in April. The S3 is no slouch, but the engine always ran hotter (234 vs 198). There are some minor irritations like no homelink on the RS3, and manual seats, but personally I haven't missed either from the S3 at all. I can't get enough of the 5 cylinder engine, it is totally a blast! I'm not tracking it or modding it, but since you asked for S3 to RS3 comparison, I personally feel like it's a step up from the S3.

Every time I start up the engine, it puts a big grin on my face. There are a few other 5 cyls in town, and I can recognize the engine by sound across parking lots on startup, LOL! Like others have said, the TTRS definitely has a more sports car feel, and we get more looks with it, but I love the stealth feel of the RS3. On ramps are hilarious! Lag seem to be highly dependent on what drive mode you're in, but that engine....:D

And FWIW I test drove an S5 with the intention of ordering an RS5 sportback, but the steering felt soooo disconnected and bloaty that we immediately ruled it out. Both the RS3 and TT RS feel totally nimble and precise; we have all sorts of fun on the back roads here on weekends!

Thanks for the review, that's exactly what I was worried about w/ the RS5 and my main reason with wanting the RS3 instead, is the nimble/tossable feeling. I'm still going to get out a test drive an RS5 when we get some warmer weather around here, lol.

From what I read over on the A/S/RS5 forums, there isn't a huge difference handling-wise between the S5 and RS5, and after 6-7 months in the S3, and a few with the TT RS, it was just totally underwhelming. The interior is cush, and the acceleration is there, but it just seemed to be missing that nimble responsiveness that the S3, and for that matter both the RS3 & TTRS have. If you wait out the RS3 delay, you won't regret it!

Saw your build post, congrats!! It will totally be worth the wait! We toyed with getting a second TT RS, but there's something about having the practicality of the 4-door sedan that sold me on it. I do a lot of the grocery shopping, and those coupe doors swing out awfully wide, just saying. Plus realistically, rear passengers need to be under 4' tall. But if rear passengers or errands aren't a concern, the TTRS really is a sweet ride, absolutely a baby R8. :)


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.aud...8308cdbe68.jpg

Wiscoaudi,

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but there's something about having the practicality of the 4-door sedan that sold me on it

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We are on the exact same line of thinking for sure ^^^
I did look into the TTRS and I should say we (Cathy-Wife) and I looked together.
At the time I was looking into the TTRS Coupe I was also looking into getting my last Muscle-Car the Challenger Hellcat.
Well as it turned out I went with my last Muscle-Car and kept it for 1-year the Hellcat.
It was an awesome machine no doubt but it had several things I just couldn't ever really adjust to.
Huge-Rear-Blind-Spots and it's Huge-Oversize was just to much so I recently traded it on the RS3 I mentioned.
I didn't this time consider the TTRS as I have at my age had enough of the Performance Coupes.
I want a car that's Nimble, Super-Easy to see out of, Huge brakes, Powerful, Fast on the Street, Modern Technology, oh and also it has to be Quattro (All-Wheel-Drive).
The RS3 fits every Box I can possibly think of and in my case I have had way more than my fair share of cars since the Mid 60's when returning from Vietnam.
I also have had a lot of Audi cars over the years.
The most fun ones to me were the multiple S-4's they were cool rides and to me looked great and performed very well for their time.

Below are some pictures of what I spoke of above .............

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...psemd6njbu.jpg

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http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...psejofytn6.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...psjoc8bfnh.jpg

And the Awesome Muscle-Car Challenger Hellcat just traded in to the same Audi Dealer, Audi Nashville here locally like maybe 20 minutes from my house.

https://i258.photobucket.com/albums/...psbppi2mtp.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...pstln6gpj5.jpg

https://i258.photobucket.com/albums/...pshxxesuot.jpg

Terry