Bad Bad News, Help ! Before I send my A8 To The Junkyard
 

I had a loud screeching noise that lasted only a couple of seconds on cold starts that gradually got worse and lasted longer and longer. I posted something about this only a week or so ago and everyone that responded didn't seem to think it was too serious.

Anyway, I brought the car in to be looked at and two separate mechanics both claimed the noise was coming from the transmission. One of the two claimed that they had it narrowed down to the noise being the transmission pump. When calling around to try to find a pump, they discovered that the pump wasn't a separate unit, and cannot be sold separately from the transmission itself. The entire transmission being replaced is the way this issue is usually handled. The part alone in that case is $7800.00 plus the labor which obviously will add quite a bit to that. I've already decided that if I am forced to replace the transmission I will absolutely dump the vehicle, hoping to sell the transmission-ill vehicle (which is in immaculate condition) to someone who has the ability or the financial means to put a new transmission in the car.

If anyone has any information or advice relating to my above case such as where I may be able to find the actual separate part I need rather than replacing the entire transmission or a better way to go approach this, please fill me in, your feedback will be very much appreciated. I'm also wondering, are there any compatible transmissions that can be put in this car? What is the name of the company that actually manufactures the transmission for this car? If anyone has any of these questions answered please respond. My Audi days are about to come to an end.

Thanks in advance.

dommi3/Tiburon, California
1997 A8 Quattro Silver/Gray
17" Audi Wheels
All Available Options
-------------------------
Previous Audi

1990 V8 Quattro

The ZF is used across a wide range of V8 powered cars.
 

Part of the Audi tranny is designed specifically for the AWD application, which might make interchangability an issue. Very few shops have the facilities to tackle the inner workings succesfully.

The basic ZF tranny code is 5HP24A, although that encompasses both RWD and AWD cars. It is used in Jag, Mercedes, and BMW applications.

On a $70K car ( originally ), a $10K tranny is not out of line. However, as more of these cars fall into a sale price where owners do not have the means or desire to spend the money to maintain them, this will only happen more often. When I worked at a British car restoration/repair shop, we would see this a lot.<ul><li><a href="http://www.erikssonindustries.com/ZF%20items/5HP24A/5hp24a.htm">Possible help ?</a></li></ul>

Re: The ZF is used across a wide range of V8 powered cars.
 

What is the mileage on your A8, and are transmission problems on these cars a known reliability issue? I have a 99 A8, and simply wish to know.

Having spoken to A8 and 7 series owners, the average lifespan is between
 

110,000 and 200,000 miles. It depends on how the car is used, if the fluid is flushed with quality fluid, and which series of HP24 is used. The BMW trannies seem to have the shortest life on average.

Re: Having spoken to A8 and 7 series owners, the average lifespan is between
 

had mine replaced at 54,000 miles by the dealer in 1999. The repair bill was around $13,000. I know a guy with a wrecked A8 that had a good engine, I will e-mail him and see if he has the transmission. I know he sold the engine for 5K, so I am guessing that the transmission would be somewhere in that range too.

as you may read below, my tranny was just replaced...
 

and the total cost would be (if it was not Audi Assured vehicle) $8874 parts and labor including the mandatory (I believe) alignment adjust.

the total cost for parts was $7508 and the rest were the labor charges. my dealer marks up parts 33% and labor anywhere from 400% to 500%.

as far as I have heard, the auto tranny is the most complex part of the whole A8 (and most other cars as well) and many things can go wrong. I would not suggest getting your tranny rebuilt as this may not save you much monies and still may not be as good as a new unit.

hope this helps....

Did you change the oil in the tranny? Here's a possible source for a rebuilt unit
 

I recall we recommended to have the fluid changed ASAP along with the filter and pan gasket. Was that done? Somebody on the list stated that they cleaned the filter after noises and found it was very dirty and went away after that.

Other's with 97's have stated that one of the exhaust pipes need to be dropped to drop the pan. I would defintely do that at this point. Don't take any more chances. Maybe it is oil starved, if it is, check the filter!

Here is a place that has rebuilt units for about $3500 or $4000 as I recall. The 97 came with one of three trannies, have the mechanic pull the serial number, you'll need it to source a new one. The 98 and newer models all came with a different tranny which is the same from my understanding.

It's ridiculious that the tranny lasts 100-200K and the engine will last much longer.

Please keep us informed.<ul><li><a href="http://www.autosportsunlimited.com/parts.html">Possible rebuilt trannies here</a></li></ul>

My tranny was just replaced... Where's the old one?
 

As I recall, the old tranny probably wasn't defective. So, where is it now? Can he buy that one?

Agree that 100k miles from a tranny is unacceptable ...
 

.
and it sounds like a 50k mile tranny fluid and filter change is more-or-less mandatory.

Hey, I wanted that one (said it last week to him) but it's a 99, won't work in a 97
 

I looked into it, for the most part, retrofitting a 98 and later tranny to a 97 is very difficult to do.

But I bet if you had the tranny TCU and the wiring harness had the same connectors, you could do it. But that is a lot of ifs.....

Re: My tranny was just replaced... Where's the old one?
 

it was not defective, but I do not think that it was all that healthy either...

I guess, the dealer has it... I do not think that I would have choice to take it home with me. Do I??

paul, your tranny seemed fine to me....

Re: My tranny was just replaced... Where's the old one?
 

Yep, ask for the "old parts" ;-) But seriously, maybe the dealer Does have it and would sell it or the pump anyway...

well, technically I did not pay for the replacement so...
 

I do not think that I can keep the "old parts" --- or ?

Did you hear this noise every morning?
 

I heard a squeal 2 times, but have not heard it since. I took it to the dealer and they said everything checked out ok, but just the car needed to be driven more.....

Yes, Since It Started Last Week
 

dommi3/Tiburon, California
1997 A8 Quattro Silver/Gray
17" Audi Wheels
All Available Options
-------------------------
Previous Audi

1990 V8 Quattro

Thanks, And Yes I Did Replace Fluid But Not Filter Etc..
 

dommi3/Tiburon, California
1997 A8 Quattro Silver/Gray
17" Audi Wheels
All Available Options
-------------------------
Previous Audi

1990 V8 Quattro

My Saab Transmission Lasted 16 Years and 250K Miles....
 

And when it failed it was my fault. It probably would have lasted much longer. Actually, at that time my clutch was original and I live in an extremely hilly part of the world. 250K miles on one clutch!! Actually, when I replaced the transmission, I replaced the clutch, only because it made sense to do so at that time since the mechanic was in there. The clutch still actually had life left in it. Go figure.

The reason the transmission failing was my fault is because I saw a leak under the car, I dipped my finger in it and it was what I thought was a motor oil leak. What I didn't realize was that the transmission on the Saab took conventional motor oil instead of transmission fluid so I never suspected the leaking motor oil to be related to my transmission and it eventually through time drained empty. I know it was stupid but in spite of my ignorance I still managed to get a quarter of a million miles out of it.

dommi3/Tiburon, California
1997 A8 Quattro Silver/Gray
17" Audi Wheels
All Available Options
-------------------------
Previous Audi

1990 V8 Quattro

Thanks, And I Agree
 

dommi3/Tiburon, California
1997 A8 Quattro Silver/Gray
17" Audi Wheels
All Available Options
-------------------------
Previous Audi

1990 V8 Quattro

The Audi Dealer Claims To Get The New Trans For The Price They Quoted...
 

You need to turn in your old one. It's an exchange. If you don't give up your old one, the price is even more expensive.

dommi3/Tiburon, California
1997 A8 Quattro Silver/Gray
17" Audi Wheels
All Available Options
-------------------------
Previous Audi

1990 V8 Quattro

There's A Possible Idea, Thanks!
 

dommi3/Tiburon, California
1997 A8 Quattro Silver/Gray
17" Audi Wheels
All Available Options
-------------------------
Previous Audi

1990 V8 Quattro

123,750 And Yes It Is An Issue, At Least On 97's
 

dommi3/Tiburon, California
1997 A8 Quattro Silver/Gray
17" Audi Wheels
All Available Options
-------------------------
Previous Audi

1990 V8 Quattro

It Seems Mine Went South Very Early In That Stat, How Sad
 

Thanks,

And yes I did replace the fluid recently with the proper fluid as preventive maintenance. As far as I know; nor the shops or the book recommends it, I did it because I never liked the feel of the transmission and I thought it might smooth things out a bit to have the fluid replaced. There was absolutely no sign of failure whatsoever. One day I started it, heard a noise and the rest is history.

dommi3/Tiburon, California
1997 A8 Quattro Silver/Gray
17" Audi Wheels
All Available Options
-------------------------
Previous Audi

1990 V8 Quattro

Thanks, And Please Keep Me Posted
 

dommi3/Tiburon, California
1997 A8 Quattro Silver/Gray
17" Audi Wheels
All Available Options
-------------------------
Previous Audi

1990 V8 Quattro

That is pretty good for a '97. Yes, the early versions are shorter lived.
 

However, an automatic cannot be compared to a manual transmission. A manual usually requires a clutch, and possibly a master and slave cylinder in the same time frame. A sophistcated automatic is generally a tad more demanding to own over the long term.

When I sales, I used to point out that short term ownership of either an automatic or manual was similar as far as maintainence goes, but over the long haul, servicing an automatic could potentially cost more. That is the price you pay for allowing something else to shift gears for you;-)

Sorry, I didn't realize you had a '97. Certain versions of that year had issues.

A manual and automatic cannot be compared - unfortunately.
 

I have over 235,000 miles on my Alfa tranny with only 2 clutches despite racing activities and living in SoCal (heavy stop and go traffic). Everyone complains about the crappy synchros, but I've been using Redline gear oil for years, and am only just starting to feel the 2cd gear weakness.

I would never expect this kind of life from an automatic - espcially one in a heavy, powerful car.

Several of my BMW owning friends comment matter-of-factly that they plan on total tranny rebuilds in their 7 and 8 series cars every 100K or so.

Re: Bad Bad News, Help ! Before I send my A8 To The Junkyard
 

Hi the tranny can be stripped and repaired for a LOT less then you think. My A8 had a re-built tranny befor I got it. The cause was a noise as yours has, The torque converter had overheated causing the coating on it to come off clogging the oil pump. It was stripped and a New t/converted / pump+gears was fitted + all seals and gakets for £1600 + VAT, now preeeeerrrrfffect.....JOHNA8 4.2

Re: Agree that 100k miles from a tranny is unacceptable ...
 

By the way the mileage was 106K when the fault showed, and this is not uncommon on the Quattro i'm told....JOHNA8 4.2

Warranty replacements go back to Germany
 

According to my dealer (who contrary to many around does seem to know the S8) AoA doesnt rebuild any of the automatics in the US. The removed-under-warranty transmission goes back to Germany where it is remanufacturered or scrapped - presumably by experts.

It is not clear to me if the non-warranty replacement cost of a transmission at an Audi dealer already factors in the core value of the old one and they are treated the same way or not but this is often the case with large remanufacturable components.

A coating on the torque converter ??
 

.
What this some kind of screw-up? I can't imagine what purpose any coating would serve.

Another reason for a paddle shifting ...
 

.
manual 6-speed sequencial gearbox in the next S8.

I guess I've been lucky to never have either a clutch or transmission problem with any car I've owned, and several had seen 200+k miles (also including a Saab 900).

The S8 is only the 2nd car I've owned with an auto. The first was a Range Rover that I believe also has a ZF transmission, but 1/ the HP of the S8.

I like that idea too. It's a pity that electronically controlled
 

automatics with manual over-ride are more common.

Wow, That's Incredible!!! Thanks John, I'm Looking Into That Right This Very Second
 

dommi3/Tiburon, California
1997 A8 Quattro Silver/Gray
17" Audi Wheels
All Available Options
-------------------------
Previous Audi

1990 V8 Quattro

Re: Bad Bad News, Help ! Before I send my A8 To The Junkyard
 

My 1998 A8 has been in the shop two times already with the same symptom. Dealership replaced a fan, but the noise continued. Either they have not correctly diagnosed or they are balking at replacement cost (Audi Assured). Thanks for the info.

Issues on '97 Tiptronics?
 

What I have been told is that the '97 5-speed tip is the same 5-speed box as all later A8's use. Do you know if this is true? As you probably know, european A8's had 4-speed tiptronic from '94 to '96 model years. I think these boxes had some trouble.

Sad to hear about your car Dommi, hope you can get it fixed soon, and without to much cost. On the bright side, this is your opportunity to get a tiptronic, or maybe a 6-speed manual if you so desire.

I'm kind of getting used to the idea that I probably will have to fix or replace the box one day myself. I drive it a lot, it now has 119K miles. It will probably have 175K before I get the new 8, so we'll see. (knock on aluminum).

My tranny replaced at 92k miles!
 

I have posted several messages regarding my transmission issues in the past. In the end, the company which eventually built me a new transmission was Engine &amp; Transmission Exchange, Inc (ETE Inc.). They are located in Milwaukee, WI but ship transmissions all across the country. As a matter of fact, when my transmission went down, I just missed a rebuilt unit that they just shipped to Florida for the identical problem as mine. I was very pleased with the upgrades they included during the rebuild which hopefully will last a good long time. Their phone number is 262-548-0000. The cost to my aftermarket insurance co. was $6,200.

Re: Did you change the oil in the tranny? Here's a possible source for a rebuilt unit
 

There were three ZF transmission versions used in the US 97s, the last (DTE) carried over into the 98s with TIP added according to the Bentley manual. The version is marked on the transmission and sometimes on a label in the trunk. It would be interesting to know which version(s) is/are have problems.

Re: Bad Bad News, Help ! Before I send my A8 To The Junkyard
 

Don't panic by the 7-9g quotes for a new tranny.
I bought a '97 a8 w/ 88k and had "high pitched" noises during hard shifting. Anyhow to make a very long story short I had a rebuilt tranny put in and w/ 15k miles on it so far I'm happy with it. The rebuilt tranny was ~2700 from:
Eriksson Industries
146 Elm St # B, Old Saybrook, CT 06475
Phone: (860) 388-4418
They picked it up and dropped it off at the Audi dealer. Don't be afraid to wheel and deal with these guys- their quote will vary depending on if they think you are a shop or a "just and owner".

You have to add the cost of swapping it. I'll get the details from the bills and post soon if interested as well as specific tranny codes.

So have faith, if you can get the tranny issued solved you have a wonderful car.

We did not get the Tip model for '97. That started in '98.
 

We had three different possible tranny combinations for '97. I don't recall the details.