I'm thinking about installing an FMIC, but I'm having second thoughts......
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AudiWorld Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Madison, AL
I'm thinking about installing an FMIC, but I'm having second thoughts......
Please tell me where I'm going wrong.
To me, It looks like trading an FMIC for the two SMICs is not much of an improvement since the surface area (not frontal area) of the two SMICs is comparable to that of the FMIC. I don't see much of an improvement other than esthetics. Not only that, but adding the IC heat to the front of the coolant & A/C radiators can't be good for those systems.
What would really make sense to me would be to keep the SMICs and ADD the FMIC between them. The combined cooling power should be increased significantly. I haven't been into the guts of the system yet but it looks like the exhaust of the first SMIC (and the inlet to the second SMIC) could be routed forwards into the inlet (outlet) of an FMIC with revised end caps rotated 90 deg backwards to mate with the SMICs.
Has anyone ever considered this concept, or I'm I missing something basic.
BlueChip
To me, It looks like trading an FMIC for the two SMICs is not much of an improvement since the surface area (not frontal area) of the two SMICs is comparable to that of the FMIC. I don't see much of an improvement other than esthetics. Not only that, but adding the IC heat to the front of the coolant & A/C radiators can't be good for those systems.
What would really make sense to me would be to keep the SMICs and ADD the FMIC between them. The combined cooling power should be increased significantly. I haven't been into the guts of the system yet but it looks like the exhaust of the first SMIC (and the inlet to the second SMIC) could be routed forwards into the inlet (outlet) of an FMIC with revised end caps rotated 90 deg backwards to mate with the SMICs.
Has anyone ever considered this concept, or I'm I missing something basic.
BlueChip
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You don't want to add more volume to the system, which is what adding an FMIC to the SMIC's would do
in spades.
The FMIC does have more surface area overall, and being in the direct air path it gets more flow through it. Schwing has states that exit temps are very near ambient, so you can't really get much/any better.
As far as worrying about adding heat to other systems... No one has reported a problem there. Your thermostat will keep the water path open more often to take care if it. Also, if you add an oil cooler as well, that burden comes off of the water cooling path all together - maybe a net "-"...
The FMIC does have more surface area overall, and being in the direct air path it gets more flow through it. Schwing has states that exit temps are very near ambient, so you can't really get much/any better.
As far as worrying about adding heat to other systems... No one has reported a problem there. Your thermostat will keep the water path open more often to take care if it. Also, if you add an oil cooler as well, that burden comes off of the water cooling path all together - maybe a net "-"...
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Adding that much more volume..>>
Results in a pressure drop which should be minimized if possible. Piping would be problematic too.
Trust us...An FMIC is a big improvement. Audi spec on the dual SMIC's is 80%. Measured efficiency with the FMIC is 93%. Due to the size, it never really gets hot enough to affect cooling. It's really a Heat sink, not a radiator per se...
Trust us...An FMIC is a big improvement. Audi spec on the dual SMIC's is 80%. Measured efficiency with the FMIC is 93%. Due to the size, it never really gets hot enough to affect cooling. It's really a Heat sink, not a radiator per se...
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Here's a size comparison, too. I would say the FMIC is close to 50% more.
<img src="http://images12.fotki.com/v211/photos/4/435091/2588112/050Oldvs_New-vi.jpg">
I was truly surprise how much more peppy my car was after the FMIC install. Everyone says it doesn't add power, it keeps you from losing it... Well, I suspect you lose power A LOT, because I really notice the car being more powerful, more of the time. There are few mods I can truly feel make a difference, this one does it!<ul><li><a href="http://public.fotki.com/mcphill/audi_stuff/engine_and_drivetrain/oct_front_mount/">O.CT FMIC Install Fotki</a></li></ul>
I was truly surprise how much more peppy my car was after the FMIC install. Everyone says it doesn't add power, it keeps you from losing it... Well, I suspect you lose power A LOT, because I really notice the car being more powerful, more of the time. There are few mods I can truly feel make a difference, this one does it!<ul><li><a href="http://public.fotki.com/mcphill/audi_stuff/engine_and_drivetrain/oct_front_mount/">O.CT FMIC Install Fotki</a></li></ul>
Thread Starter
AudiWorld Senior Member
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From: Madison, AL
Makes sense
I can see where the extra volume would be a killer. Specially if the FMIC is that efficient already, then there is no need for extra cooling.
Is there a site where the cooling effect of the two SMICs is compared to an FMIC. I sure would like to know how much bang I'm getting for my buck.
Is there a site where the cooling effect of the two SMICs is compared to an FMIC. I sure would like to know how much bang I'm getting for my buck.
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In addition to the other comments about adding FMIC to SMIC, consider the lost in flow...
due to increased pressure drop through each component. Less flow, means less horsepower. Ideally you want the air as cool as possible, but you want the air from the turbo to flow as easily as possible back into the engine.
Day to day driving the FMIC will not help much. Maybe on a really hot day in city traffic, but then not much hp is needed.
I have found the biggest help is on autocrossing where you make a really hot 60 second run, then sit. This is where you get the great heat soak and this is where the FMIC really helps.
Day to day driving the FMIC will not help much. Maybe on a really hot day in city traffic, but then not much hp is needed.
I have found the biggest help is on autocrossing where you make a really hot 60 second run, then sit. This is where you get the great heat soak and this is where the FMIC really helps.
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I was told the Del Rio FMIC was smaller to help the rest of the systems cool better.
This is all second hand but I was told a Stage Three car with the Forge intercooler had to back off and let the car cool down after about 4 laps on a certain track. But once they switched to the Del Rio they could run without engine temp issues at all.
It's a very extreme situation and probably will never be an issue on a normally modded car. And I wouldn't doubt the Del Rio gives up a bit in air cooling because of it's smaller size. I guess I'll see.
I think I'm still trying to justify the smaller Del Rio FMIC to myself. It's kinda working.
Trent
It's a very extreme situation and probably will never be an issue on a normally modded car. And I wouldn't doubt the Del Rio gives up a bit in air cooling because of it's smaller size. I guess I'll see.
I think I'm still trying to justify the smaller Del Rio FMIC to myself. It's kinda working.
Trent
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Thread Starter
AudiWorld Senior Member
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From: Madison, AL
The SMICs are deeper and that's why I said "surface area" and not frontal area......
Although adding frontal area is, of course, more efficient than adding depth to a HEX.
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Thread Starter
AudiWorld Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Madison, AL
I was not aware of this smaller Del Rio FMIC but again it makes sense......
An oil cooler, as MCPaudiTT mentioned above, should mitigate the effect of an FMIC on the cooling system. Do you have one installed?
BlueChip
BlueChip