TT (Mk1) Discussion Discussion forum for the Mk1 Audi TT Coupe & Roadster produced from 2000-2006

Alignment Targets - not in the FAQ?! What are target TOE numbers? (Needed ASAP!)

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Old Nov 21, 2006 | 10:30 PM
  #1  
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Default Alignment Targets - not in the FAQ?! What are target TOE numbers? (Needed ASAP!)

It gets asked all the time, and I think I found a good post with decent discussion. Is this a current "good recommendation" for a somewhat aggressive setup:

Front:
Camber: -0.8 deg
Caster: Can't adjust?
Toe: Toe IN (per side) - 0.05 deg / 1/16" (???)
Total Toe: 0.1 deg / 1/8" (???)
Steering Angle: 0

Rear:
Camber: -1.6 deg
Toe: Toe IN (per side) - 0.05 deg / 1/16" (???)
Total Toe: 0.1 deg / 1/8" (???)
Thrust Angle: 0

Sound good? Any changes suggested?
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Old Nov 21, 2006 | 10:55 PM
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Default Alignment targets

Mike, I've found that your camber numbers work well. Some cars can't get to -.8 in the front, but up to -1.0 works OK. Cross camber should be as close to zero as possible, front and back.
I've had better results with 1/16 total toe-in, front and back. At 1/8 the car tends to hunt and tramline more. Less total toe-in at the front can reduce twitchiness (slightly slowing initial steering response) and makes the car easier to drive at high speed in a straight line. In the front you can go to zero toe if needed to smooth response and generate more cornering grip too.

rule of thumb for the front: zero to 1/8 total toe-in...
MORE will quicken response and turn-in, but directional stability and final grip can suffer..
LESS for better linearity to steering input and improved grip, but initial response may slow...
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Old Nov 22, 2006 | 04:35 AM
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Default Good recomendation. Russ...

I've experiemented a lot with front toe...I think factory calls for a touch of toe out (Under acceleration the pulling tires tend to pull suspension inward cancelling the Toe out). Since I have MK1's I figured this wasn't happening quite as much and found, as did you, that 0 Toe seems to work best
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Old Nov 22, 2006 | 05:01 AM
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Default

I run front camber -1.5, toe +0.15
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Old Nov 22, 2006 | 06:19 AM
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Default Thanks guys! I will request:

Front:
Camber: -0.8 deg
Cross Camber: 0
Caster: Can't adjust?
Toe: Toe IN (per side) - 0 to 1/32"
Total Toe: 0 to 1/16"
Steering Angle: 0

Rear:
Camber: -1.6 deg
Cross Camber: 0
Toe: Toe IN (per side) - 0 to 1/16"
Total Toe: 0 to 1/8"
Thrust Angle: 0

Guess we'll see what I get, and I will post it. I am also getting my first corner balance with:

Spare out
Gas siphoned to 3/8 to 1/2 tank
220 Lb in driver's seat

Any other suggestions there?
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Old Nov 22, 2006 | 06:49 AM
  #6  
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Default I'd corner balance with what you normally have in the car - the removal of those items

will have a negligible affect on an occasional track day. Also remember - to corner balance correctly - you won't have all four corners of the car at even heights.
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Old Nov 22, 2006 | 08:31 AM
  #7  
Russ Scott's Avatar
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Default thanks... as people install Defcon kits, they'll benefit from your experience... edited

edit:
Recently I had a chance to work on John's car, helping with an upgrade from original Mk 1 arms (Def 3) to full Def 1 spec. I've continued to experiment with my own car at Def II and subsequently upgraded it to Def 1. I've concluded that although very stable at zero toe, I prefer 1/16 total toe-in. The cars response is JUST right, very quick and very entertaining.

We also proved that it IS possible to make the car dangerous. When John's car came off the stands, we drove it to settle the suspension prior to alignment. It changed direction under high power at the slightest pavement ripple, and was non-linear in response to steering (aka: it was TWITCHY!). All very interesting flying through my favorite chicanes. There was more than one "holy crap, where did THAT come from"!! Subsequent measurement revealed excessive (1/4 inch total) toe-in. After setting the front camber to -1.3 (John's preference) and 1/16 total toe, the car performed brilliantly...

tech:
The Bentley front toe-in spec is 8 minutes (of degrees) plus 7. Or: from 8 to 15.. total toe-in. It's the same for stock ride height and "sport" (aka S-Line). So the design intent calls for toe-in, reguardless of ride height. The trick is converting this to inches. For this, Smart Racing includes a conversion chart with their Smart Camber tool. My prefered spec, 1/16 inch total (derived through trial and error) is equivalent to 12 minutes... the HIGH side of the range. More on this later...


With stiffer bushings the car turns-in quicker because less time is needed for bushing compression. Under turning load, camber change is lessened, improving steering precision. High toe-in (preloading the bushings) is no longer required for quick response, AND it can lead to instability at speed. "I blinked, and the car changed lanes"....

my recommendation:
stock bushings... best at 1/16 total toe-in
Original Mk 1 arms & Defcon'ers: 1/16 total, but can run <closer to> zero if preferred

edit: TT'ers, please consider this recommendation a guideline. Experiment with small deviations in either direction to tailor your car to YOUR preference... See the "rule of thumb" in my "Alignment targets" post.

Thanks in advance for sharing your findings!
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