Audi could learn from Acura
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AudiWorld Senior Member
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Audi could learn from Acura
We just traded in our 2001 MDX for a 2004 MDX. Every small complaint we had with the 2001 was corrected in the 2004. (Better headlights, more powerful radio, fabric on the pillar to prevent nicks when the seatbelt retracts, rear mudguards added, more powerful rear window washer, side mirrors no longer hold water, softer leather on the seats, no more transmission "hunting" when driving in D5)
Yet, you can read this forum and see the same issues over & over that I have had on my 2002 allroad...rotors warp every 10K, shifter could be better, O2 sensors go bad, wipers that clog with snow, oil leaks and OE tires that handle poorly and are useless in snow. (Plus lag issues for the tip drivers)
Maybe Honda/Acura actually reads their dealer's repair orders and owner forums.
Yet, you can read this forum and see the same issues over & over that I have had on my 2002 allroad...rotors warp every 10K, shifter could be better, O2 sensors go bad, wipers that clog with snow, oil leaks and OE tires that handle poorly and are useless in snow. (Plus lag issues for the tip drivers)
Maybe Honda/Acura actually reads their dealer's repair orders and owner forums.
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How can you
fault audi for O2 sensors that go bad and rotors that warp? Audi does not make these parts themselves, they buy them from a supplier. Most likely the same supplier that most car makers get from. It seems that the suppliers may have some quality control issues but those are clearly not Audi problems. If you are so displeased with your allroad then why do you keep it? Another point, buy wipers designed for the snow, get SNOW tires if the OE are so bad, they have to give you an allseason tire not one designed specifically for snow.
Thread Starter
AudiWorld Senior Member
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Well,
I never said I was displeased with my allroad, I love the way it drives. After 4 sets of rotors in 55K miles I just wish Audi would change the rotor design/materials/supplier. Can you imagine the number of rotors that Audi has had to replace on allroads? I'm sure someone at Audi has noticed. Now that I'm out of warranty I'll buy aftermarket rotors. As for the wipers, let me know what winter wiper will fit my 2002 ar and I'll buy it tomorrow. Finally, I did buy snow tires for my allroad as well as Pilot Sport A/S tires to improve summer handling. Again, if someone at Audi read the owner forums, they would see that most of us think the OE tires are junk and a better tire should be provided considering the cost of the vehicle.
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Easy.....
Many (if not a majority) of the parts on these cars are bought from sub-contractors or outside suppliers. It's Audi's responsibility to buy quality parts, including the tires which are junk. We've been lucky with our '01 and have not had many problems, tires were problem of course but we got 20k+, better than most, albeit with increasing thumping the last 12k due to cupping.
Jim
Jim
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True
Audi is responsible for buying quality parts. Seeing as how Bosch is the only company I know of that makes 2 sensors then I must assume that Audi feels they are buying a quality part. However Audi can not test every part that they purchase for a significant period of time to determine the failure rate of the part. As far as brake rotors. I have had the stock rotors on my A4 for 88,000 miles now and will be replacing them in the spring with some brembo rotors when the summer wheels go on. I have not had any issues, sure maybe there are some different issues with allroads and their design but again Audi can not be held responsible because one of the thousands of parts they buy from a subcontract was deffective.
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Quality parts + correct engineering = quality car
Repeated brake problems are either due to underengineered rotors or poor pad material selection - both of which are fully under Audi's control.
GM had the same problem for years with their trucks. In the last generation they finally got smart and spent the money to upsize the front rotors and use 4-wheel discs - problems solved, but it increased the mfg cost of the vehicle (and improved safety).
Your last statement is bogus: Audi absolutely is to be held responsible to their customers for every bit of the car. They may be able to push some of the pain back upstream to a vendor if the problem is due to vendor quality control, but that is between Audi and the vendor and in no way reduces Audi's responsibility to their customer.
GM had the same problem for years with their trucks. In the last generation they finally got smart and spent the money to upsize the front rotors and use 4-wheel discs - problems solved, but it increased the mfg cost of the vehicle (and improved safety).
Your last statement is bogus: Audi absolutely is to be held responsible to their customers for every bit of the car. They may be able to push some of the pain back upstream to a vendor if the problem is due to vendor quality control, but that is between Audi and the vendor and in no way reduces Audi's responsibility to their customer.
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Thread Starter
AudiWorld Senior Member
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Back to my original point...
There is clearly a problem with the allroad rotors. Audi should know that it exists and take measures to correct it. It may not be a subcontractor problem or defective part. Maybe it is an engineering issue, such as the rotors can not handle the heat generated by the pads & calipers. BTW, I had 165,000 miles on my '98 A4 rotors. They never needed replacing.
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The rotor issue is one of ignorance on the part of the service dept.
These cars are not warping rotors. It is because the pad compound is soft (which is why the car stops well when it is cold) and is leaving deposits on the rotors.
I bedded the pads in on my wife's allroad and we are nearly at 30k miles without any problems.<ul><li><a href="http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm">Read this</a></li></ul>
I bedded the pads in on my wife's allroad and we are nearly at 30k miles without any problems.<ul><li><a href="http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm">Read this</a></li></ul>
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Again
I go back to the O2 sensor. Yes Audi is responsible to keep the customer happy and give the customer confidence that they are buying a quality product. Audi can in no way make sure that every O2 sensor they purchase from Bosch is not going to fail prematurely. They have to assume that the lot that is shipped is all good and there are no deffective parts.