<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0227.jpg">
Arrived in Mechanicsburg,Pa late March. Sits behind a Monroe Brake&amp;Muffler for a month before being put in a garage, by service of a friend who worked at said Monroe. Here it sat in a garage bay little bigger than the car itself, undergoing the adjustments needed for an inspection in PA. New green ABT brake pads, new windshield wiper motor, new DSM sidemount intercooler (Yeah, thats why the bumber bends at the bottom, need a 45 bend to clear). Things started to go sour at the garage about 2 weeks ago, had to move it to my house.
In all its storaged glory:
<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0224.jpg">
Now that the work is soley under my responsibility, I feel much more confident in working to get my urq started. Things just get messy with 3 people workin wires. I dont have to tell you guys, you should know. This thing is a wiring disaster.
<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0245.jpg">
I believe that this is either a harness out of another car, or that this car was severely rewired sometime durings its life. There are a few parts from other cars in here and some aftermarket ones...

Alright time to get serious. The car hath lost its spark to live, and this deeply saddens me.

REASONS FOR NOT STARTING:
IGNITION COIL:<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0264.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
Heres where I need your guys help. The place where it all starts. No spark coming out of the coil. Shot of spades on front of coil<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0271.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
Left side = "15" Right side = "1" not sure which is power or ground or if thats even how its supposed to be. 4 wires with the blue female connectors connected to the front.
Voltages: Blue : 12v from ecu
Green: 0.05v from ecu
Black: 12v from ignition control mod?
Red: 1 to 1.5v from tach??
I really need someone to go out and check how the wires are configured, or just the voltages coming into the plug at the back of the coil.

IGNITION CONTROL MOD:
<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0250.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
or lack there of. I think whoever rewired this switched it to this????<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0257.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
another shot<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0231.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
find them in 5000 turbos and such. but i heard they controlled the idle stabilizer or cold start valve or soemthin weird like that. Anyway was replaced from a 5000 in a junkyard. still no spark.
IGNITION SWITCH: <img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0275.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
Havent replaced this as of yet. Only other thing that was replaced was the starter motor AT lockout relay. Beyond the hall sender, reference or speed sensors going out and not working. What else could cause this. My dist cap is new, rotor isnt but its not in bad shape. I'm running out of ideas over here in PA. If anyone is in the Harrisburg area anytime soon with a urq I would love to borrow your ecu for 2 seconds to see if my TAP ecu is busted. let me know what you guys think


-Rob

 

And scroll down the the maintenance documents.

They may help you, but I see some incorrect ignition parts in your pics.

You were right when you said "severly re-wired"!

HTH<ul><li><a href="http://www.quattro.ca/">http://www.quattro.ca/</a</li></ul>

 

<center><img src="http://4ktq.digitalnoise.org/4/harnesslabels.jpg"></center><p>
OK.. Here's what I think has happened. I think your whole ECU &amp; Harness has been changed.

1) THe coil is not what a urq would come with.
(Looks like the one that comes with a MAC 11 Ecu)

2) You have no IGn Control unit over the glove box (MAC 11 doesn't need one)

3) The black box that you do show looks like the 'idle stabalization' controller used with the MAC 11

Now, all is not bad, because as fas as I'm concerned, the MAC 11 is a better ECU. Better mapping, supports a knock sensor, and can run more boost if modded correctly. And.. It stores fault codes!!! THat's very useful too. Also easier to get replacement for, as it was used in loads of 5000 turbos.

In fact, as my stock ECU looks like it's a bit no good, I'm planning on doing exactly the same thing. Swapping to the MAC 11 ECU and engine wiring harness!

So... Really what you may want to do is take a look at the ecu (right end of the glovebox), and find out what it is. IF it is a MAC 11, they probably used a complete harnes from a 5000 (But you won't be able to swap ECU's with someone with a urq.

If the ECU has been swapped, go look at the link. You should find pretty well everything you need to know, including some clues on the ignition wiring.

If it it a MAC 11, the wiring harness is pretty well documented by everyone converting their 4000 to a turbo motor. I might go as far to say even better documented than the original wiring..!

The good thing is, the whole MAC 11 wiring harness is basically 'stand alone', with only external to the harness connections to the rest of the car wiring for ignition power, fuel pump relay output and perhaps something to pull the codes with. Even the idle stabalizer should be on it's own separate leg of the harness, and not connected to the rest of the car wiring anywhere.

If you are working the car and wiring assuming it's the original, you are pretty sure to be messed up!
Not nessesarily bad that everything has been swapped, but you just have to know where you are, to start fixing stuff..

Whille you are checking the ECU number, maybe you should check the motor number too!
My urq came with a MC motor (from a 5000 Turbo)in it. Hydraulic lifters, and a water cooled turbo are good indicators. That, along with the serial nymber on the block starting with "MC"..!<ul><li><a href="http://4ktq.digitalnoise.org/4/index.htm">Harness Info</a></li></ul>

 

Like I said before, I remember sitting and seeing that car when it lived in Michigan. Pretty interesting to see it in the pictures.
Keep up the work, the end result will be sooo rewarding

 

YOU GUYS ARE FREAKIN GENIUSES
<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0284.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
THIS IS MAKING SO MUCH SENSE NOWWWWWWWWW!!!!
<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0286.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
looks like a red harness to me. Part that runs under the blower motor at the top, runs to idle stabilizer. Coil is now wired correctly. Do urq usually run oil type coils, instead of this transformer type i got in here? which is better? Cant figure out if my car is MC or WX, however it does use the idle stabilizer out of an MC and the page that Frank(thanks a million) provided me with says they are not interchangable. the serial on my block starts with "TO" obviously im lookin at the wrong thing on the block.

I am gonna go make sure all the connectors are correct in engine bay
then give her a shot at life...

-Rob

 

Check the engine timing. The ignition _will not_ fire if the engine is not properly timed. There are three marks to line up. Coil failures are pretty much unheard of and ECUs don't fail very often either. There is a 0 mark on the flywheel that will match up with a little pointer-like feature in the bellhousing on the driver's side. This indicates that the crankshaft is at TDC on #1. With this lined up, there is a dimple on the back side of the cam sprocket that should be lined up with the top of the valve cover on the driver's side. If you don't see it at all, rotate the engine one turn, as it could be 180 degrees out. Then check that the distributor is lined up. To do this, remove the cap, rotor and plactic cover and check that the mark on the shutter wheel lines up with the distributor housing.

The next thing to check is for engine codes. Seeing that the car has a MAC-11 ECU, you have some built-in diagnostics. That is a VERY good thing. You may have to check the wiring and see if the check engine light is there. Hopefully it is. If not, now is the time to wire it up. Having the Bentley for a 5kt or early 200 will be a good thing to have to check wiring, but you can likely find the info online from places like:<ul><li><a href="http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/trouble_shooting/10vtecu.htm">http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/trouble_shooting/10vtecu.htm</a</li></ul>

 

sigh... guess i have to start checkin all these info senders. would i be able to find another MAC11 in a junkyard? why do the quattro gods punish me so
<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0289.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
two spade sensors on block, one (BLUE/RED) disconnected, needs to be connected.

shot of coil all wired up:<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0305.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
black on 15 side, green and red/yellow/black on 1 side. blue disconnected and taped.
<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0293.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
shot of TDC, RPM, and knock sensor, the wires are all messed up, some connectors broken. hard to tell what goes where. If TDC sensor was plugged in wrong, could that affect starting? Its not one of the main problems for not starting, but the car thinking TDC is somewhere its not makes me think that it could make it not start. blah im just speculating now

-Rob

 

sigh... guess i have to start checkin all these info senders.

&gt;only worry about stuff on the red harness. BUt It may be a good idea to go over everythihng, making sure most stuff is connected.

would i be able to find another MAC11 in a junkyard? why do the quattro gods punish me so

&gt;Maybe. My MAC 11 caqme out of an 88 5000 T.

two spade sensors on block, one (BLUE/RED) disconnected, needs to be connected.

&gt;THose are the oil pressure senders switches. Not on the red harness, so nothing to do with starting.

shot of coil all wired up:
black on 15 side, green and red/yellow/black on 1 side. blue disconnected and taped.

&gt;shot of TDC, RPM, and knock sensor, the wires are all messed up, some connectors broken.

&gt;You HAVE to have the TDC &amp; RPM sensors working to start. Not sure what happens if the knock sensor is disconnected.

hard to tell what goes where.

&gt;An ohm meter is your friend. Also, those three sensors are 'sort of' colour coded inside the wires. Better if you measure continuity from the correct ECU pin to the sensor, with the ECU disconnected. Look at one of the websites for what ECU pin goes to what sensor.

If TDC sensor was plugged in wrong, could that affect starting?

&gt;SUre would!

&gt; Its not one of the main problems for not starting, but the car thinking TDC is somewhere its not makes me think that it could make it not start.

&gt;Exactly true. If no TDC reference, the ECU really has no idea the the motor is even turning over!


blah im just speculating now

&gt;If's a proven fact that URQ's can cause that sort of behaviour!

Do urq usually run oil type coils, instead of this transformer type i got in here?

&gt;Yes.

&gt; which is better?
Both are 'unique' to their corresponding ECU, as far as I know.

Cant figure out if my car is MC or WX

&gt;NOthing to say you can't run a MAC 11 on a WX, or the original urq ECU on a MC motor. In otherwords, the ECU and the motor don' *have* to match.

however it does use the idle stabilizer out of an MC and the page that Frank(thanksT a million) provided me with says they are not interchangable.

&gt; First, The WX has no idle stabalizer. THe web page was pointing out that the older 5000T KH motor and the 5000T MC motor used different stabalizers (And probably ECUs too)

the serial on my block starts with "TO" obviously im lookin at the wrong thing on the block.

&gt;Serial number is on a small 'flat section' at the top of the block just behind the top water outlet, above the two oil pressure sensors. Maybe someone could post a pic of where to look?

&gt;I'd suggest that you go over all the items on the harness chart carefully and methodically, and make sure everything is what it is supposed to be (maybe chaeking continuity from the ECU connector). Take your time, and don't be in a rush. Be relaxed, and eventually, you'll get it sorted. Refer to the 4000 turbo conversion pages..

IF you are good at electrical diagrams, getting the 5000 elecrical manual may be a good idea too.

 

<img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/alfonzo312/DSCF0311.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
I'm guessing this is what im supposed to be lookin at on the bellhousing. But i couldnt see a 0 on the flywheel anywhere to line up(rotates too fast while cranking to see). So I figured Id hit you guys up to see if Im even lookin at the right thing.

 

You should be turning it over by hand to be able to see the "0". What I do to get it close is pull #1 plug and insert a long zip tie to feel the top of the piston. Then turn it over slowly by hand using breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt and watch as the zip tie goes up, then stops for a bit before it goes back down. When you see it stop, look for the "0" in that window on the bellhousing.
HTH