Following up from my post on Sunday on the Pioneer satellite navigation system, I just wanted to respond to some subsequent posts saying that I was out of line in what I said in comparing the Pioneer system to the Audi Nav Plus.

Firstly, sorry if I offended anyone - when I said in passing at the end of my long post with photos that the Audi Plus system is "lame and outmoded" in comparison to the new Pioneer systems, it was simply a comment about the technical and graphical functioning of the Audi system versus the Pioneer. So, let me explain further...

Firstly, there's no question: I agree that an in-built system by Audi is in principle much more preferable to an aftermarket "inserted" option such as the Pioneer - I agree with those who don't like the screen in front of the vents on the dash: it's not the prettiest of solutions, but as I wanted to keep my Audi CD and didn't feel like spending USD500 more, I didn't go for the motorized screen version. However, there is a safety factor also - screens high up are much more driver-friendly: the in-built Audi Nav Plus is very low, and it has to be said a bit dangerous for keeping your eyes on the road. For example, there's no question that in the future, when infra-red/green night-time vision displays are built into the windscreen to enable the driver have some night-vision of the road in front, the map navigation displays will also be integrated in the windscreen - not down by your knees.

Aside then from the aesthetic and safety side, cost-wise, I'm happy to say you guys in North America obviously get a better deal than us Europeans. For a start, the Nav Plus system isn't available everywhere (ie. Ireland). Secondly, it in fact costs around USD3,500, so the Pioneer systems are always cheaper.

Then when it comes to the actual technical functionality of the system, the obvious point is that Pioneer make the units for every kind of car available, not just Audi. This may seem insignificant, but when it comes to the amount of info contained on the DVD, Pioneer has a much bigger incentive to be as exhaustive as possible. For a start, Ireland (to give an example) while not being completely mapped yet by NavTech, is at least significantly present on the Pioneer DVD. Audi don't even sell the Nav Plus in Ireland, so it obviously doesn't work there. In addition, the Audi Nav Plus (in Europe and the US) is still based on CD-Rom, while Pioneer (in addition to Alpine, Dayton, etc) is now all on DVD - so this is what I mean by "outmoded" (a purely technological point). The significance (if you're European, and especially if living in mainland Europe) being: that you would need to buy a new CD for every country you visit in Europe, and change it each time you cross the border. So, for example, if I were to drive from Dublin to Germany via England, I'd need to have upto 5 CDs (Ireland, England, France, Belgium (if going to North Germany) and Germany) and keep changing them as I go. Given each CD is also around USD150 in Europe, you can see therefore why a single DVD (costing USD250 - or free with the system) is superior to the Audi Nav Plus in this respect.

When it comes then to the functioning of the unit, until you've actually driven with the "3D" mode in the Pioneer, it's not at all possible to have any idea how damn cool and important this aspect of the system is (and by the way, only Pioneer has this - if you read the fine print of Alpine's system, the 3D mode only works in Germany and one other European country). It makes deciding which lane or turn to take entering or leaving a motorway a complete breeze. The aerial view doesn't help at all in this respect. Again, maybe us Europeans need to be more sensitive to graphic features than North Americans - our cities and towns are not all built on the basis of geometric grids as in the US. For example, be it Paris, Cologne, London or Bruxelles, the roads twist each and every way you can imagine. Therefore, "which" right turn to take is not at all immediately obvious. In Paris, a crossroads isn't a crossroads unless it's got 6-7 roads, so the 3D view is a lifesaver in knowing which direction to go for.

Also, simply looking at the graphic interface of the Audi Nav Plus (as one can see on the following website: http://www.tvwiz.net/navigation/index.html ), and comparing it to that of the Pioneer (even just the map mode - see my previous posts) I don't think there's much debate that the Pioneer incorporates a much more refined and developed user-friendly colour scheme, combined with super resolution. There's no question that the Audi system is advanced, but it has the aesthetic of early technological achievements, and looks pretty similar to most air-traffic control screens you see on TV - the raw data is showed, but any graphical friendliness is a little short. The Pioneer is much more in tune with providing an easy to use, easy to see system for good and bad drivers alike. Remember, in the end of the day, the navigation is supposed to assist you in driving (and even calm you down, if you're a road rager who hates getting lost), and I don't think there's much argument to be made that the simpler a navigation system is to see and use, the better it is.

Then, finally, there is an issue of reliability. Pioneer is one of the biggest manufacturers of audio visual equipment in the world, so spending money with them, you can always be sure there'll be customer support to back up any problems or faulty units. The same I'm afraid can't be said about Audi. The guy who installed my unit in Paris ten days ago told me he had someone in the week before looking at a Pioneer system who already had the Audi Nav Plus. Problem was: his Audi system had packed up after only a few months, and having gone to Audi many times to try to send it back to get it fixed (or something), it turned out Audi don't in fact have anywhere in Europe that deals with after-sales or service on their navigation systems. If your units dies, then unless you've got a super friendly dealer, you're stuck. Again, this will probably change as Nav systems become a standard feature in newer models of cars, but for the moment it's a luxury item which Audi don't put as much time, money and research and development into as do Pioneer and the like. It's true I was very surprised that a luxury brand such has Audi didn't have this after-sales navigation service centre, but what can you say - it probably just doesn't pay yet.

So, again I agree with all those comments that the in-built Nav Plus system looks better - installation wise (but hasn't anyone not wondered why Audi themselves NEVER show pictures of the system in operation: try as I did, it's impossible to find anything via Audi - they just show it looking good "off"). However, you can see why I don't really feel it's worth its salt for where things are at technologically in 2003. However, as always with Audi, here's waiting for their next much improved version.

 

I didn't get into that heated debate, but I was reading about it. I commend you on your professional and calm stand to those that took a more aggressive stance. You certainly add value to the discussions on this board and I look forward to reading your posts in the future. You drew many comparisons in this writeup that provide additional insight into the benefits of each system. Thanks.

Jim

 

a part-time or full time journalistic position.

 

I totally agree with you, the only thing I did not see in your write up is the integration with the onboard computer (center of inctrument consol). Is the Pioneer interfacing with this display like the Nav+ is? If so, I really wonder how hard it would be to integrate the Pioneer unit in the Nav+ position (possibly with a broken Nav+ unit's casing?) You would then have the best of both worlds. Can the Pioneer have alternate inputs (ieVD Movie, Playstation?)

Congratulation on the writeup.

 

Re: Thanks Séamo - very kind words.

 

Seriously. There's a great atmosphere of sharing, and as knowledge is the most precious thing we have, there's a real joy to be had in seeing so much constant activity and input on this forum. Posting is also about debating, and I think this is a healthy thing. We may only talk about cars and their bits here, but the generous way in which this forum communicates information and experience is something that can also be brought to different arenas and discussions. Dialogue is a great thing.

 

There is a photo somewhere on the web which I've been trying to find again this evening where someone has installed the "on-dash" Pioneer screen into the centre console of his (if I remember correctly) Golf. It looked pretty good. While I'll keep searching for the photo, in the meantime, I came across a photo of a similar install of a Dayton screen in a 3 series BMW. Gives general idea.<ul><li><a href="http://www.satnavshop.com/cgi-bin/searchinstallation.cgi?productID=1">http://www.satnavshop.com/cgi-bin/searchinstallation.cgi?productID=1</a</li></ul>

 

<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/audio/msgs/26113.phtml">https://forums.audiworld.com/audio/msgs/26113.phtml</a</li></ul>

 

I'm actually about to put in a pioneer or clarion 7" navigation system. It is far superior to the Nav+ system. It also comes with a built in, in-dash cd/dvd/cdr/xm radio player and a tv tuner. You can also hook up two more video or audio inputs like for a rear view camera like I hope to do.

 

Just curious, is the Kenwood DVD Nav unit available in Europe (other than the UK)? In the US, it's about $2200 installed (not incl. the LCD)