im having issues with the running of my 89 coupe.She will start , run for a few minutes , then die . then refuse to start at all.longest she has run for , is two hours , then just died again.have tried 3 metering heads , changed fuel filter , idle / rev relay . it has no Ecu (jetronic injection system)have checked spark and its good after she dies , other rotor arms had fuel tank out and checked both pumps and another ignition module...all to know avail , my mechanic is at a loss.Any input would be greatly appreiciated. New Member

 

The highest and best purpose of the forum is to have good conversations.

Particularly when asking for help, make it easier for potential helpers to read your post. Consider proper capitalization, and space-bar use, etc.; not just as basic clarity requirements, but as a courtesy to potential readers. You're more likely to get a helpful response if you at least appear to be making an minimal effort to convey your message.

After writing it, please review and edit it as required, then ask yourself if you'd even bother answering your own request. Consider that some of the most knowledgeable authors here are often quite generous with their time, but are probably looking for adult conversation. Make them want to respond! Appreciating your desired audience begins with at least the correct spelling of it.

The forum is not an oracle, and your issue is perhaps not entirely new. Use of the search function here is not mandatory before posting, just recommended. It will help you answer questions you didn't even know to ask, and help you ask better questions. If you can show that you've done some searching prior, this will also help in inducing others to perhaps take an interest in your issue.

Start here:

Learn how to pull the codes (or confirm there are none to be pulled).

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/sho...light=jetronic

...then please come back.

 

Thank You for your reply Lago Blue.Car has no ECU , so not able to hook upto a diagnostic computer and pull any codes.
The Garage that the car is in , is a good friend (20 year relationship) and he's being as helpful as possible , but is struggling to diagnose the fault.The car has been in Garage for over 5 weeks now.Im ok with Basic Mechanics , but have very little understanding of the things i read in the forums.Also they tend to lean towards quattro /turbo engines.
At my last visit to garage, he said it my be running rich or pulling too much fuel , as there is a heavy fuel smell , when trying to start and when running.
Have consulted two other VAG specialists , who both thought Metering Heads , Fuel Filter , Pumps and water in fuel system etc... All of which have been changed.
My initial thought when it first died , was bad fuel, as it happened once before. i used a random Garage just before it happened and put £10 worth in. but have put a further £25 of fuel i trust from another Garage (BP).

Further information i have to offer is , my car is a 1989 coupe 2.2e , 5 cylinder , 10 valve. My mechanic says Plugs , HT leads , Dizzy Cap and rotor arm are all ok.Have replaced fuel filter, had fuel tank out and checked both fuel pumps and they seem to be good, fuel pump relays are opening and closing.have replaced idle/rev relay pn 447 907 393 B also tried ignition module off of a working Coupe GT mark 1.Also tried two other second hand Metering heads.the last of which seems to have helped.

Lastly , mechanic tells me , if he has air box cover off and feathers the phelum plate (i believe thats how its spelt) he can make it run a little longer.Things on my list to check are o2 sensor , idle stabilizer valve , fuel pressure regulator and rubber hose from filter housing/air sensor to throttle Manifold. Any other help would be greatly appreciated.

 

From Wikipedia:

"KE-Jetronic (1985–1993) Electronically controlled mechanical fuel injection. The engine control unit (ECU) may be either analog or digital, and the system may or may not have closed-loop lambda control. Commonly known as 'CIS-E' in the USA. The later KE3 (CIS-E III) variant features knock sensing capabilities."


Your 1989 "Jetronic" may be CIS E3 version (photo below). It should therefore have an ECU. It should then also have connectors to pull codes from, perhaps not with a "diagnostic computer", but with a light, hence "blink codes". Please go back and review the procedures for blink codes above again. Locate the connector, perhaps near driver's LH knee, or possibly near gear-shift.

See description CIS-E3:

http://www.coming4you.net/downloads/KE-Jetronic.pdf

See also this checklist from Hugh Powell's excellent site:

http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/tuning-cise.htm

As you have said your mechanic can make it run a little longer by manipulating the "plate", it may be that everything is basically ok, except for an air leak <i>in</i> which may prevent the plate from getting to where it needs to sit, on it's own, as air may be leaking in, down-stream from the plate. IIRC, these where particularly susceptible to vacuum leaks, even a defective oil fill-cap seal is a problem for the injection system to tolerate.

Please post your results.

 

I dont know 100 per cent , that it doesnt have an ECU , i just havent been able to locate one.

I have a K-jetronic fuel system (have found and downloaded the manual from a thread on this forum)and its not like the picture you sent.In bottem right hand corner of picture, the fuel feed pipe,mine doesnt have sensor at end of it.if i had to guess the part number on Metering Head - 413 100 115 (but thats a guess at best)And in my hunting for part,i know the metering head off of an Audi 100 or 80 wouldn't fit and they look the same as Picture you sent.

Have looked into possible locations of an ECU and checked all(including Mechanic).It depends on which hand drive car is, Mine is Right hand drive (English). Have checked Both Kick Plates (foot well walls) on left is just insulation on right is Ignition Module.under steering wheel is fuse and relays and behind glovebox ,I have a large air cleaner looking box,with 3 or 4 block connectors , but nothing resembling a serial or scart type connector. Also a VAG specialist struggled to find one on a wiring diagram of my car.But gave me 2 possible part numbers- 443 997 264 AX or 4AO 997 264.Again ive found no box/relay with those part numbers on.

Have seen the LED/Resistor blink tool and would be willing to try , if i could locate ECU.I appreciate your help Lago Blue and will pass Air possibilty to Mechanic.Thank you for your time.

 

You don't need to locate the ECU to be able to pull the blink codes, usually.
VW/Audi tend to put the ECU in the rain tray, so it may be under the plastic cover there.

I know in my 1991 VW GTi, the "2+2" connector for reading the codes was under the shift boot.
In my 1993 Audi 90cs Quattro, the "2+2" connector is on the fuse block under the hood in the rain tray.
I know my 1987 VW Jetta did not have any way of reading codes, even though it was CIS-E.

It is very much a possibility that you may not be able to read any fault codes in the 1989.

ON this page, you can see what the 2+2 connector looks like, just so you know what to look for in case your car has it:

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/2x2.html

 

Thank you for your help and the Picture GuyllFyre , will keep my eye out for it.

 

Since your engine ran for as long as two hours before stopping, the major components are probably fine. That it then also refused to start, perhaps the major issue is:

a.) minor;
b.) intermittent; &
c.) heat related.

How well did it run during those two hours? Did it idle by itself? Could you drive the car? Was it at idle when it quit? How long do you have to wait before it is restart-able? Does it have to be cold to re-start?

I don't think the O2 sensor can cause the engine to quit.

I would start by going down through Powell's checklist (&/or one's like it, see also the link below) from the top, paying particular attention to the small stuff like the electrical connectors condition and cleanliness, and use his schematics to thoroughly dis-assemble and inspect the <i>entire</i> intake air and vacuum system's components for possible air leaks into the engine: cracks, holes, poor fit, loose connections etc.

I have seen a North-American 1989 K-jet Audi 90 engine quit when the oil fill-cap was removed.

Vac diagram:
(see also notes at bottom under diagram re hot shut-down for instance.)
(there may also be a vac diagram under your hood?)
(does this diagram below reflect your system?)

http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/vacuum-system-E.htm

Another K-Jetronic checklist:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w116...ml#post1576889

 

Lago Blue, I wasnt with the car when it ran for 2 hours , but,the Mechanic said,he had thought he had cracked it.But then it died.I would assume it was at idle when it quit and that they had reved it through the range, once they had it running , but not driven it far, if at all.Car refused to start after that though.Previously,longest we had it running for was 10 minutes at most.

When i had the car running , it was a mixture of symptons.slight misfire and rough running(like i had water in the electrics).underload, she seemed like she was struggling to run right.under idle she was fine.when it cut out on me , it made a pop as it died.I would have to let it cool down 30-40 mins , before it would start again.

The weather at time , was extremely hot and summery.One thing i did notice on day it started playing up ,the brake pedal was extremely hard as soon as i got in it , like it had been pumped up. so i am inclinded to think it is the breather pipes.

Have had a lot of previous issues with oil leaking out of filler cap and some breather pipes blowing off , thought i had solved those as she isnt leaking anymore.But after reading the links etc you sent , i am inclinded to look at breather pipes and the electrical connectors next and invest in a led and a resistor.

i really appreciate the help and technical advice you have passed over to me,i wouldnt have found it on my own (i have been searching google for months)i cross my fingers that it is something so simple, will let you know how i get on.

 

There will be a sticker on the car somewhere which will help you ID the engine type. It's a 5 cylinder I presume? Perhaps it is the "KY" model engine (2.2 ltr.)? This will help you ID the specific type of CIS injection you have, the dealer may know this. Does your car have a catalytic converter?

The popular "Bentley" manual is the official factory publisher for workshop manuals here in North America, buy it only covers the Californian, fifty state and Canadian models, and has nothing about 2.2 ltr. engines. However if you knew what model of fuel injection you have, it might be useful. Who publishes manuals for Audi in Britain? You must get the appropriate manual.

Once you have determined exactly which version of CIS injection you have, you can then look for the trouble-shooting guide for exactly that type.

Another possible way your car may divulge diagnostic codes is via the fuel pump relay. Does your F/P relay have a fuse on top, or slots where one could be inserted?