my car is a 1990 90 quattro20V. i haven't been getting much help on the 90 forum, so i thought maybe somebody here could help me. i've had problems with tire wear since i got the car and have been through 2 sets already. I can't figure out what the problem is. i get it aligned regularly, but everytime i take it in, it is outrageously out of align. also the steering wheel has to be turned in order for the car to go straight and if i hold the wheel so that it is level, the car will drift off to the right. here is what i have previously posted:

i got new pirellis with only 8,000 miles on them, and the insides of my front tires are worn down twice as much as the outsides - the tread-ware indicator is around 50%. this is ridiculous. i even took it in around 4000 for an alignment check and everything was way, way off. this car eats through tires at an insane rate. what could possibly the problem? maybe the alignment guy has the wrong settings? well, at least the tires are under warranty because i will probably need some new ones in about 8,000 miles. does anybody else have this problem?

just the front 2 tires on the insides - 151500 miles.
what do i need to do to determine what is causing the problem?

i took the car out and got it up to 90 today. i felt slight vibration on the wheel at 60 and it seemed to increase some as i went faster. you told me to jack up the car and feel for slop when shaking the wheels - can you describe this process in more detail - what exactly is slop? like i said, it's my front tires - they are halfway gone (probably more) on the insides after only 9 months and 8,000 miles. the backs are in better condition -but i had previosuly had problems with rear tires. i really need to get this fixed now before my tires are completely shot (again). 4 new tires per year is not resonable. but first i need to know what the problem is.

thanks,
matt

 

While you wrote a lot, there isnt much hard data to go on. For instance what were the camber/caster/toe-in numbers before and after each alignment?

Are you using the same shop for alignment each time? Most alignment shops will quickly identify worn parts in the suspension because doing an alignment and checking it becomes impossible (suspension never returns to the same values). Did they point out anything about worn out joints? It somehow sounds like you have worn ball joints.

High inside edge tirewear is usually because the combo of negative camber and toe-in is too high for your type driving.

In the US most roads are crowned in the middle for water runoff so steering slightly left to go straight is normal.

Jacking up a car and wiggling the tire is not the way to check for worn parts (except wheel bearings). When the angle on a worn joint is changed a lot, like when the vehicle is jacked up and everything is fully extended, in many cases the joints feel fine because they are not positioned in the worn area. I had an old van that used to pass state safety inspection, including a similar "test" of the suspension even though the joints were severly worn, for just this reason.

 

At that age, your car MUST have all new ball joints front and rear and typically the steering joints (tie-rod), as a start. The strut top mounts are sure to be shot, and this will allow excessive camber movement that the shop monkeys may not figure out.

 

i had an alignment done in april right after putting the new tires on, i had another one done at the end of the summer but's can't fiund the papers anywhere - i know when i took it in then, they said everything was way out of whack. the papers i have don't specify before or after, but i have tow from the same time, so i assume the one with the bad readings was the before

Before:
LF: (camber: -1.18 caster: ... Toe: -.18*)
RF: (camber: -.86 caster: ... Toe: .60*)
Total Toe Front: .42*
LR: (camber: -1.16 Toe: .64*)
RR: (camber: -1.23 Toe: .50*)
Total Toe Rear: 1.13*
* means the value is out of the specified range

After:
LF: (camber: -1.17 caster: ... Toe: .04)
RF: (camber: -.84 caster: ... Toe: .09)
Total Toe Front: .13
LR: (camber: -1.13 Toe: .15)
RR: (camber: -1.21 Toe: .14)
Total Toe Rear: .29

i also just noticed something on the top of the printout it says "Audi: 80/90 Quattro : 1990-91 : except Model 90 20 Valve" - but I have a 20 Valve!.

yes i've used the same alignment place each time (NTB). they haven't said anything about any parts of the suspension and everything was checked off from the one in april.

the problem with the steering is more that a slight turn to the left, i'd estimate maybe 10-15 degrees to the left to keep it straight, and i notice it on non-crowned roads also.

thanks for any help,
matt

 

By "real" I mean if they are repeatable after, say a drive around the block and a few bumps. If they dont repeat then you are suffering from worn parts. Your NTB may be better than average but I wouldnt give the ones around here much credit for suspension skills. I am not sure how to suggest picking a shop to trust in your area. I go by a gut feel myself.

One more thing. I dont know the earlier Audi at all but if the front camber can be balanced (L=R) it ought to be closer than that. The contact patches will be different and adding a driver will just make them more different. That can contribute to odd straight line behavior like you describe.

 

because when i took it back after 5 months - everything was screwed. don't know what it could be - did you read 4kq's comments below?

 

I agree with 4kq.

 

maybe i should try a different shop?

 

My prototypical shop would be an independent place that does repairs exclusively (no retail business like tires, mufflers or tacos), does a lot of repair business in out of warranty German cars and they would have a serious investment in suspension alignment equipment, like a late model Hunter 4 wheel machine.

 

no tacos - gotcha