H rated snow tire question. Michelin Pilot Alpin vs. Nokian NRW vs. ???
Thread Starter
AudiWorld Super User
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Guelph, Ontario
H rated snow tire question. Michelin Pilot Alpin vs. Nokian NRW vs. ???
I'm looking into getting some new snow tires in 16" size and I would like to have an H rated snow tire. Can anyone comment on how the Michelin Pilot Alpins compare against the Nokian NRWs. I've narrowed my search down to these two tires and just want to see what people thought on AudiWorld.
TIA,
Kirk
TIA,
Kirk
AudiWorld Expert
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Michigan, USA
Personal experience only with Pilot Alpins, but....
from what I've heard on these forums, NRWs might be a bit better in actual snow conditions, whereas Pilot Alpins might have an edge in cold dry weather handling.
I played a few times in a couple of inches of snow with my Alpins, and they're OK. I suspect they may have some difficulty with handling much more than that though.
On the other hand, where I live, we don't get too much snow, so dry weather handling was more important to me, and in that department, I really like the Alpins. Not as grippy as dedicated summer tires, but very predictable and comfortable at any speed.
You should also consider Dunlop WinterSport M2 in the H-rated winter tire category.
I played a few times in a couple of inches of snow with my Alpins, and they're OK. I suspect they may have some difficulty with handling much more than that though.
On the other hand, where I live, we don't get too much snow, so dry weather handling was more important to me, and in that department, I really like the Alpins. Not as grippy as dedicated summer tires, but very predictable and comfortable at any speed.
You should also consider Dunlop WinterSport M2 in the H-rated winter tire category.
Member
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Apples and oranges...
Agree with Andy the LM-22 is a good contender, as is the Dunlop M-3 (not in big numbers in USA).
I love the hakkas, but not the NRW. WAY too compromised. Any of the above tires and the Michelins would be better choices, IMHO.
I love the hakkas, but not the NRW. WAY too compromised. Any of the above tires and the Michelins would be better choices, IMHO.
Member
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Great ice tires, lousy performance tires...
They are a hard dual rubber compound (relative to all the previously ment. tires) that holds the studs really well. The belt package is better than the 09's/10's, but still weak.
I love them on ice and slush. Hate them in the dry.
I love them on ice and slush. Hate them in the dry.
New Member
Joined: Apr 2000
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Compromised in wich direction ?
I've got NRWs recently but have not tried them in snow yet. On the dry they are very quiet (suprisingly) and handle quite decently (although turn-in response is quite a bit slower then my sp8000s). I think it's tread design is agressive enough for most snow conditions.
But in a sense any H-rated winter tire IS a compromise.
Vlad
But in a sense any H-rated winter tire IS a compromise.
Vlad
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I've babbled about this before...
Synopsis:
HK02 Greatest unstudded tire
HK01 Greatest (1 or 2) studded tire available in US
NRW (-)Ordinary, compounding, belt package;(+) tread pattern very agressive for an AS tire.
So you could buy a performance snow tire (Dunlop 02/03, Michelin pilot, Pirelli asm, Yok whatever, Bridg lm-22. Which are all better compounds and belts: Better traction *and* handling.
Or, you could buy an AS tire. The michelin AS's are about as compromised as I would ever go, and I wouldn't use them anywehere that had real snow.
AS's just suck in all conditions IMHO, unless you cannot afford two sets of tires or cannot for physical reasons swap tires. Don't get me wrong, plenty of people get away with them. But when you have to have emergency handling in the dry or packed snow, you are screwed compared to the other tires.
HK02 Greatest unstudded tire
HK01 Greatest (1 or 2) studded tire available in US
NRW (-)Ordinary, compounding, belt package;(+) tread pattern very agressive for an AS tire.
So you could buy a performance snow tire (Dunlop 02/03, Michelin pilot, Pirelli asm, Yok whatever, Bridg lm-22. Which are all better compounds and belts: Better traction *and* handling.
Or, you could buy an AS tire. The michelin AS's are about as compromised as I would ever go, and I wouldn't use them anywehere that had real snow.
AS's just suck in all conditions IMHO, unless you cannot afford two sets of tires or cannot for physical reasons swap tires. Don't get me wrong, plenty of people get away with them. But when you have to have emergency handling in the dry or packed snow, you are screwed compared to the other tires.
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Experience with NRWs
I've had Nokia (before they were Nokian) Hakka 01's and 09's; Pirelli P210A's, and NRW's over the years that I've been driving a succession of Audi Quattros.
Nothwithstanding their sales as an all-season tire, the NRW is the best snow tire I've ever used, period. It is VASTLY better in snow or ice conditions that the the Pirelli P210 was, and that was billed as a dedicated snow tire. I've had a set of NRW's on my S4 all this winter, and they have been absolutely great. I downsize mine, from 225-45/17 summer tires to 205/55-16 for the winter tires, and the result is, in my experience, unbeatable.
I've had past Hakka snows, the 01's and 09's, and the NRW's are better. Remember that the Hakka 1 or 2 is designed to be used as a studded tire. Nokian recommends that you use the Hakka Q if you need ice performance without studs. The "Q" is (of course) Q rated; the NRWs are H rated which works better for me, commuting from Southern California to the Sierras.
I've never had the Michelins, so I can't say anything about them. But when my Pirellis were new people were comparing them favorably to the Michelins. If that's true, I'm glad I stuck with my NRW's.
DMoore
'01 S4
Nothwithstanding their sales as an all-season tire, the NRW is the best snow tire I've ever used, period. It is VASTLY better in snow or ice conditions that the the Pirelli P210 was, and that was billed as a dedicated snow tire. I've had a set of NRW's on my S4 all this winter, and they have been absolutely great. I downsize mine, from 225-45/17 summer tires to 205/55-16 for the winter tires, and the result is, in my experience, unbeatable.
I've had past Hakka snows, the 01's and 09's, and the NRW's are better. Remember that the Hakka 1 or 2 is designed to be used as a studded tire. Nokian recommends that you use the Hakka Q if you need ice performance without studs. The "Q" is (of course) Q rated; the NRWs are H rated which works better for me, commuting from Southern California to the Sierras.
I've never had the Michelins, so I can't say anything about them. But when my Pirellis were new people were comparing them favorably to the Michelins. If that's true, I'm glad I stuck with my NRW's.
DMoore
'01 S4