B9 S Tronic vs. MK7 DSG
11-15-2016, 08:59 PM
#31
The 7F version is the only one I've seen any specs on, and it is definitely 400Nm:
Kulturserver Graz
Presentation by the lead Audi engineer. Perhaps it has been lifted for the 7Q version that ErictheRed has detailed. Or perhaps the UK journalist got the conversion from Newton metres wrong, as Nm is what Audi use. I have also seen 400Nm referenced in the last few weeks, as Audi have just commissioned a new plant in China to churn out the DL382 for the local market.
The Abt tune in Germany is 330hp and 325lb-ft torque. They tend to respect the limits, as they are an Audi Sport partner in DTM and Formula E, and have inside running on when to push, and when not. I don't know what basis APR would have for understanding the transmission's torque limits, but then I don't know much about them.
The software maps have a big role to play as well, the ECU cuts torque on shifts. The shift speed also has an impact on dynamic torque shock on the drive train, so the software controls shift speed as well.
Kulturserver Graz
Presentation by the lead Audi engineer. Perhaps it has been lifted for the 7Q version that ErictheRed has detailed. Or perhaps the UK journalist got the conversion from Newton metres wrong, as Nm is what Audi use. I have also seen 400Nm referenced in the last few weeks, as Audi have just commissioned a new plant in China to churn out the DL382 for the local market.
The Abt tune in Germany is 330hp and 325lb-ft torque. They tend to respect the limits, as they are an Audi Sport partner in DTM and Formula E, and have inside running on when to push, and when not. I don't know what basis APR would have for understanding the transmission's torque limits, but then I don't know much about them.
The software maps have a big role to play as well, the ECU cuts torque on shifts. The shift speed also has an impact on dynamic torque shock on the drive train, so the software controls shift speed as well.
Last edited by acruxksa; 11-15-2016 at 09:09 PM.
11-28-2016, 06:03 AM
#34
AudiWorld Member
DSG FAQ - ÷àñòî çàäàâàåìûå âîïðîñû ïî êîðîáêàì DSG I guess this company repairs VW and Audi transmissions in Russia.
Ok, that sounds reasonable. I wouldn't feel so bad tuning my car to 526Nm if it could handle 600Nm safely.
Ok, that sounds reasonable. I wouldn't feel so bad tuning my car to 526Nm if it could handle 600Nm safely.
Last edited by up-n-coming; 11-28-2016 at 06:07 AM.
11-28-2016, 06:35 AM
#35
AudiWorld Super User
DSG FAQ - ÷àñòî çàäàâàåìûå âîïðîñû ïî êîðîáêàì DSG I guess this company repairs VW and Audi transmissions in Russia.
Ok, that sounds reasonable. I wouldn't feel so bad tuning my car to 526Nm if it could handle 600Nm safely.
Ok, that sounds reasonable. I wouldn't feel so bad tuning my car to 526Nm if it could handle 600Nm safely.
11-28-2016, 11:05 PM
#36
The New Audi S4 No Longer Has A Dual Clutch Transmission
Audi shifts away from dual clutch transmissions
Florian Beck, powertrain engineer for the new Audi S4 and S5, says the shift is primarily "a torque issue".
"You have to look at the maximum torque. Up to 400Nm is the perfect combination for the dual clutch transmission, but this one has more than 500Nm," he says.
"You have to look at the maximum torque. Up to 400Nm is the perfect combination for the dual clutch transmission, but this one has more than 500Nm," he says.
2017 Audi S4 Won't Get Dual-clutch Automatic, or Manual **Note, this article just might support an argument that 368 lb ft is supported by the DSG7 OCL, but they don't actually list the transmission model and they could still be referring to the older DL-501
2017 Audi S4 Photos and Info ? News ? Car and Driver
What do all these articles say? They say Audi is using a ZF Automatic transmission in their new S4's that make 354HP and 369lb-ft of torque. If our DSG7 0CL (DL382-7Q) can support 600Nm / 440lb-ft of torque, why would audi be switching transmissions in the S4?
I want to believe the DL382-7Q can handle 600Nm as much as the next guy, but just because it says so on a russian transmission repair shops website does not necessarily make it so.
Audi clearly doesn't consider their current dual clutch transmissions reliable beyond 400Nm, but their definition of reliability is probably much different than many other peoples definition of reliability and aversion to risk.
Last edited by acruxksa; 11-28-2016 at 11:25 PM.
11-29-2016, 05:55 AM
#37
AudiWorld Super User
I would love to believe a russian website, however when you have an engineer for Audi stating on the record that they are moving away from the dual clutch transmissions for their S class vehicles because the don't seem to handle torque above 400Nm very well and you have S class vehicles being released with standard 8 speed automatics and not dual clutch transmissions, you have to wonder why.
The New Audi S4 No Longer Has A Dual Clutch Transmission
Audi shifts away from dual clutch transmissions
But what does he know that a russian website doesn't right?
2017 Audi S4 Won't Get Dual-clutch Automatic, or Manual **Note, this article just might support an argument that 368 lb ft is supported by the DSG7 OCL, but they don't actually list the transmission model and they could still be referring to the older DL-501
2017 Audi S4 Photos and Info ? News ? Car and Driver
What do all these articles say? They say Audi is using a ZF Automatic transmission in their new S4's that make 354HP and 369lb-ft of torque. If our DSG7 0CL (DL382-7Q) can support 600Nm / 440lb-ft of torque, why would audi be switching transmissions in the S4?
I want to believe the DL382-7Q can handle 600Nm as much as the next guy, but just because it says so on a russian transmission repair shops website does not necessarily make it so.
Audi clearly doesn't consider their current dual clutch transmissions reliable beyond 400Nm, but their definition of reliability is probably much different than many other peoples definition of reliability and aversion to risk.
The New Audi S4 No Longer Has A Dual Clutch Transmission
Audi shifts away from dual clutch transmissions
But what does he know that a russian website doesn't right?
2017 Audi S4 Won't Get Dual-clutch Automatic, or Manual **Note, this article just might support an argument that 368 lb ft is supported by the DSG7 OCL, but they don't actually list the transmission model and they could still be referring to the older DL-501
2017 Audi S4 Photos and Info ? News ? Car and Driver
What do all these articles say? They say Audi is using a ZF Automatic transmission in their new S4's that make 354HP and 369lb-ft of torque. If our DSG7 0CL (DL382-7Q) can support 600Nm / 440lb-ft of torque, why would audi be switching transmissions in the S4?
I want to believe the DL382-7Q can handle 600Nm as much as the next guy, but just because it says so on a russian transmission repair shops website does not necessarily make it so.
Audi clearly doesn't consider their current dual clutch transmissions reliable beyond 400Nm, but their definition of reliability is probably much different than many other peoples definition of reliability and aversion to risk.
11-29-2016, 10:46 AM
#38
AudiWorld Super User
The CSWB is restricted to 400Nm, and it uses the DL382 S tronic. The CRTC version produces 600Nm, but it never uses the DL382, only the AL552-8Q (ZF8HP) Tiptronic, which is rated around ~700Nm. If they had continued reading onto page 58, they would have seen it stated that only the 700Nm rated AL552-8Q is used when torque exceeds 400Nm. Second paragraph:
So some in Russia have joined the wrong dots, and assumed 600Nm. Good luck with that, LOL!
Why don't people look at VAG Group's naming convention for DQ and DL sequential transmissions for a vague clue on torque ceilings??
11-29-2016, 11:09 AM
#39
AudiWorld Super User
What about the dsg transmission in the S3? Is that the same as in the A4 or different? I believe there are many remapped S3s putting out more than 400 Nm (295 lbft) compared to the stock 380 Nm (280 lbft) and doing so without a problem.
01-09-2019, 11:43 PM
#40
AudiWorld Member
so do we have a verdict as to which dsg is on our NA spec A4 quattro? only q5's and allroads have ultra right now in north america, the sedan is same as before 40/60 split.. but which one do we have?