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AUDI TDI 2ND THOUGHTS

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Old 11-24-2013, 08:46 AM   #1
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Default AUDI TDI 2ND THOUGHTS

Anyone who purchased an A 6 TDI have second thoughts that they should have stuck with the gas engine after some time has passed?
If so why?

I should mention we drive around 15K per year mostly rural area. 75/25
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:04 AM   #2
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Anyone who purchased an A 6 TDI have second thoughts that they should have stuck with the gas engine after some time has passed?
If so why?
Nope. I had a 2010 3.0T before so I know how the engines compare - I've had my TDI for 3+ months and 4k miles, and don't think I'd ever go back to a gas engine.
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Old 11-24-2013, 10:19 AM   #3
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I've had a VW 2010 Jetta TDI and a 2013 Passat TDI. I now have a MB BlueTec and an A6 TDI on order. Once you go diesel, you never go back. My only regret was selling the Jetta TDI for an A4 gasser. The Passat was a regret because it was a badly made car. The MB is a locomotive.
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:19 AM   #4
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I had an offer I can't resist but otherwise I'd have waited for the TDI. I drove diesels when I travelled in Europe and it is a sensible choice. Unlike hybrid, diesel is a mature and proven technology. While pick up from standstill is slower than the 3.0T, the TDI's low end torque is very handy in passing traffic. Most of us seldom drive to the redline so the nameplate peak 310 hp at 5500 rpm is irrelevant in most driving situations. If we look at 1500-2500 rpm used in normal driving situations, we harness an estimated 244-314 lb-ft of torque and 85-150 hp respectively from the 3.0T. For the 3.0TDI at same rev range, the full 428 lb-ft of torque is available and produces power between 105-180 hp respectively. So we get more useable power from TDI and better fuel economy than 3.0T in normal driving rev range.

In Europe 70% of cars sold is diesel and in UK the only gas A6 sold is the 2.0T hybrid, S6 and RS6 the rest is all diesel. Europe sells an A6 3.0T biturbo diesel that has 313 hp, a monstrous 479 lb-ft of torque that tops a Ferrari 599 and 0-62 mph that beats the 3.0T by 0.2s according to EU figures. The performance gap between gas and diesel is more apparent beyond 62 mph. Someone posts on YouTube a 3.0T takes 24s to hit 125 mph and 46s to hit 155 mph. A 3.0 biturbo diesel with only 3 hp advantage over 3.0T achieves that in 20s and 38s respectively because it beats 3.0T in hp across the rev range. It is no wonder the business case for gas engine in Europe is weak when it doesn't beat the diesel in performance nor mileage. Where I live, diesel costs the same as regular gas, so you get double benefits from better mileage and lower pump price.

Are there shortcomings in diesels? Yes there are a few. The heavier diesel engine means weight distribution is more biased towards the front at 59/41, compared to 55/45 for the 3.0T and there is more understeer. Upfront cost is higher (same in Europe) so it takes a couple of years to get the payback in fuel savings. If you intend to own the car long term diesels make a lot of sense, if you lease or own less than 4 years then diesel is not for you. Diesel crankcase is more sturdy to withstand the higher compression ratio and hence usually lasts longer than gas, but most of us don't own the car more than 15 years.

All that said, I think Audi TDI pricing is wrong. In Europe the 3.0TDI we get is the diesel counterpart to our 2.0T gas model so the $2,400 diesel premium should be over the 2.0T not 3.0T (alright, to be fair the 245 hp TDI performance is better than 2.0T so maybe another grand or two over 2.0T. Europe has another de-tuned 3.0TDI that generates 204 hp that is a real counterpart to the 2.0T). In Europe the 245 hp TDI is priced below 3.0T so don't know why it is the reverse here. Now if they bring the 3.0 biturbo TDI monster then it would make sense to tag a $2,400 premium over 3.0T. As it stands it is hard to convince customers to go with TDI that costs more than 3.0T but weaker performance, at least on paper. As I said above, practically the useable performance of TDI is not worse than 3.0T.

I look forward to the day when electric hybrid is tagged to diesel engines. That would be marriage in heaven.

Thanks for bearing with my long blurb.
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:24 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by in2dwww View Post
I've had a VW 2010 Jetta TDI and a 2013 Passat TDI. I now have a MB BlueTec and an A6 TDI on order. Once you go diesel, you never go back. My only regret was selling the Jetta TDI for an A4 gasser. The Passat was a regret because it was a badly made car. The MB is a locomotive.
MB diesels, while not high performance, are reputed for durability. From time to time they issue press release of drivers who log one million km or 625,000 miles on the diesel.
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Old 11-24-2013, 02:48 PM   #6
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All that said, I think Audi TDI pricing is wrong.

I look forward to the day when electric hybrid is tagged to diesel engines. That would be marriage in heaven.
I cannot remember where I saw this but someone said that diesel engines are taxed more than petrol engines as an import to the US. Perhaps it is not true but my quick Google search found the US to have some very low diesel import tax.

Also, did you see where MB has created a diesel-electric E-class?


As to the OP,

It is a true phrase, "Once you go diesel, you never go back." I could not imagine driving a gasoline engine as a regular everyday car. Granted, performance wise the gas is better, but if you are working M-F and drive some distance, you cannot go wrong with diesel. I get consistent 30mpg in the city and city only. Highway it is about 38. Oh and with the torque and quattro? Dream come true.
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Old 11-24-2013, 03:14 PM   #7
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Do any of the diesel owners find it difficult to find service stations that carry diesel fuel? I never owned a diesel car, but had diesels in two sailboats I owned. I found them very reliable in the boats, so I have no reason to dislike them beyond the idea that they seem to add weight to a vehicle. In my area in suburban NYC I seldom see diesel for sale, although maybe that is because I am not looking for it for my car. The NYS Thruway service areas all carry it I think, so thatís plus. Just asking.
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Old 11-24-2013, 03:27 PM   #8
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I don't know about import duties. My understanding is diesel engine has higher production cost. Diesel engine costs more in Europe and there is no import duties issue.

Alas, Mercedes diesel electric hybrid is not available stateside.
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Old 11-24-2013, 04:58 PM   #9
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I cannot remember where I saw this but someone said that diesel engines are taxed more than petrol engines as an import to the US. Perhaps it is not true but my quick Google search found the US to have some very low diesel import tax.
I think you're referring to the Federal fuel tax which is .06 more per gallon for diesel vs gas.
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Old 11-24-2013, 05:03 PM   #10
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I just picked up a '14 TDI. I absolutely love it. I've been averaging 28 mpg over the first 800 miles, most of which is in stop and go traffic (the start/stop works great). I'm a performance junky (traded in a vette z06) so I don't like the fact that there aren't many upgrades you can do except APR flash (can't complain its a big jump in power for money). I can't comment about not having access to diesel. In NJ you can find it in most places.
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Old 11-24-2013, 05:03 PM   #11
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Do any of the diesel owners find it difficult to find service stations that carry diesel fuel?
No and from what I've read, diesel is carried at over half of US gas stations.
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:49 AM   #12
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No and from what I've read, diesel is carried at over half of US gas stations.
What I seldom see are electric charging, hydrogen, LP, and E85 pumps and stations.

Diesel is everywhere, it's just easy to ignore them because it's not at every pump. Most of the diesel pumps are on end of the outer islands. I actually prefer the truck stops because they are more like an airport terminal. It's strictly business on the trucker side of the fuel station. You can get in and out without hassle, especially during the holidays and heavy traffic weekends. Just pull the Audi/Benz/VW around back and it's like VIP access.

I cannot tell you how many times I've been approached for "gas money" at the gasoline pumps while re-fuelling my gasoline Mercedes. It happens a lot. I now take the diesel while traveling anywhere and I stick to the trucker side. I definitely feel safer on the trucker side.

Diesel is more accessible as an alternative to gasoline, electric, E85, hydrogen, etc. Plus, the range is also important. If another hurricane hits, are you going to flee in a Tesla? I think not! If a wildfire is storming through, are you going to hop in the hybrid? Perhaps. In the diesel, you can drive for 7 straight hours and be 500 miles from where you were and still have 100-200 miles of range before empty. Those 100-200 miles will be plenty to find the next fueling station, even in the middle of Texas.

If you took the Tesla, you'd be waiting for 30 minutes at a charging station, anxiously sipping an espresso. In 30 minutes, you can find a diesel station, refuel, and be on your way for another 500-700 miles. If you took a hybrid, I doubt you'd make it 500 miles at 70 mph before having to stop for fuel.

Also, the MMI has a search feature where you can find stations that carry diesel. You can even get the fuel prices to display on the MMI via Audi Connect.

Diesel is ideal for anyone who travels. A hybrid is more suitable for the city. A Tesla is probably not ideal for anything other than a commute.

Once you go diesel, you never go back.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:05 AM   #13
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Do any of the diesel owners find it difficult to find service stations that carry diesel fuel?

It's not an issue. You quickly learn where your local stations are. The Gas Buddy app is excellent aid for locating diesel fuel.

The only warning I'd offer is don't be caught in unfamiliar territory late at night with the low fuel light glowing
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:33 AM   #14
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Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I should have also said I am retired so we don't put on lots of miles. We average around 15K a year so maybe that isn;t enough to GO DIESEL.
The reason I just might is maybe trade-in value will be high for a low mileage diesel after 3or 4 years. That is how long I go before getting a new vehicle.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:12 AM   #15
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Apologies for responding late. One word - YES!

For all the reasons mentioned above.
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Old 11-25-2013, 07:18 AM   #16
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I know it was a sales pitch by my salesman but he showed me a couple Q7s that were gas and diesel. The diesel Q7 was worth a lot more, both had similar specs and mileage but then again U paid more for the diesel. My replacement will be diesel as well. I hope we'll have diesel hybrids here by then.
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Old 11-25-2013, 07:40 AM   #17
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Have had mine for about 6 weeks now and wouldn't go back to gas. I do about 80-85% highway driving, and it just gets astounding mileage for a car this size. The torque is wonderful, and the 8spd transmission always keeps it in its sweet spot. The 3.0T definitely edges the TDI at the limits, but the TDI is just so effortless and really felt more responsive in real world driving. Also, at highway speeds, the engine is whisper quiet. Purrs along at around 1500rpm. Have had zero issues finding diesel fuel, and since I've been averaging over 650 miles per tank, I'm filling up about half as often as I did with my last car.
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:23 AM   #18
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Have had mine for about 6 weeks now and wouldn't go back to gas. I do about 80-85% highway driving, and it just gets astounding mileage for a car this size. The torque is wonderful, and the 8spd transmission always keeps it in its sweet spot. The 3.0T definitely edges the TDI at the limits, but the TDI is just so effortless and really felt more responsive in real world driving. Also, at highway speeds, the engine is whisper quiet. Purrs along at around 1500rpm. Have had zero issues finding diesel fuel, and since I've been averaging over 650 miles per tank, I'm filling up about half as often as I did with my last car.
Good for you. Diesels are great for highway cruising.
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:46 AM   #19
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It's the next car on my list for sure.

As some others have said, once you go diesel there is no going back.
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:22 PM   #20
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Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I should have also said I am retired so we don't put on lots of miles. We average around 15K a year so maybe that isn;t enough to GO DIESEL.
The reason I just might is maybe trade-in value will be high for a low mileage diesel after 3or 4 years. That is how long I go before getting a new vehicle.
If you get a diesel - any diesel - you'll probably end up keeping it for a long time. A consequence is that you'll likely want to drive more as well.

I put 115k miles on a new Jetta TDI in 30 months. I owned a company and travel was essential. I drove a ton because it was getting 50mpg on road trips and I could cross the country on less than $200 in fuel (SC to CA).

I agree that 15k a year is nothing, as some say that the TDI doesn't fully break-in until 60k miles.

As for resale, I sold my 115k mile, 2010 TDI for $13k in 2012. I paid $23k new. Maintenance costs were oil changes every 10k, fuel filters every 20k, and tires at 60k. Original front brakes. Depreciation? What depreciation?
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:22 PM
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