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Old 01-14-2014, 03:56 PM   #1
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Default Oil analysis TDI @ 625km

Hello,

I've decided to do two voluntary oil changes before 2,000km on my new TDI. The first oil change was performed at 625km. The second will be performed at 2,000km.

A little background on the oil. I found out that the car comes from the factory with the same type of oil as the dealer uses (5w40 synthetic). The only difference is that the factory oil doesn't have "detergents" and Castrol 5w40 has them. The sample was taken by the dealer during the oil change. I'm not sure at what point did they take the oil sample (in the beginning, midstream, at the end).

Oil analysis point out that the oil looks closer to 0w30 properties. If anyone can chime in what type of oil the diesels are coming from the factory, that would be great. Some diesel dilution in the oil is occurring, but this could be due to some blow by during break in.

Any thoughts are welcome.
Thanks.
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:22 PM   #2
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I found out that the car comes from the factory with the same type of oil as the dealer uses (5w40 synthetic). The only difference is that the factory oil doesn't have "detergents" and Castrol 5w40 has them.
By any chance did the dealer selling you Castrol 5W40 tell you this?

I believe my C5 owner's manual specified the factory fill oil as a "high quality 0W30" or the like, and an admonition that the end user was not to change it prior to first scheduled maintenance.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:09 PM   #3
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That's what the dealer told me. The service manager for that matter. Not sure what oil the car came with from the factory, that's what I posted here.

Why no changing the oil before the first (8,000km)? I've done some research into breaking procedures and there is a consensus that oil should be changed at least one time before 2,000km. I've chosen to do this twice to closely monitor the amounts of suspended particles in the oil.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:59 PM   #4
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I'm going to side with Richard and say you've changed out the oil far too early. VAG used to use a "break in" oil...see reference below. Modern mfg techniques have changed so much, who knows what they're doing today. However, the fact you found the oil to have viscosity similar to a xW30 coincides with what others have found when sampling this nearly-virgin oil...it's very thin.

Note standard TL 521 67. It references "factory fill, light running":

Click the image to open in full size.


Further down that same list you'll see a spec still applicable to older cars today, VAG 505.00. It's referenced as "service engine oil".

Personally, I would not have changed that oil 'til I was much closer to the initial recommended drain interval. It's entirely possible they're using a low-vis oil to accelerate the break-in process given their mfg techniques.

I've seen someone meaure cylinder pressures on a TDI from Day 1. It took nearly 50,000 miles for the car to hit its peak cylinder pressures....these cars take a lot of miles to really get broken-in.

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Old 01-14-2014, 07:33 PM   #5
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That's what the dealer told me. The service manager for that matter. Not sure what oil the car came with from the factory, that's what I posted here.
My first (short-lived relationship) Service Advisor told me the same B.S. 14 years ago, except his story was 20W50 or whatever other crap they had on hand back then. Check your owner's manual. Mine says 0W30 and I showed it to him as I explained why I was providing my own M1 0W30 vs the back-then-included-in-purchase-price sludge the dealer was using.

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Originally Posted by Superfly_A6 View Post
Why no changing the oil before the first (8,000km)? I've done some research into breaking procedures and there is a consensus that oil should be changed at least one time before 2,000km. I've chosen to do this twice to closely monitor the amounts of suspended particles in the oil.
My experience is with the 2.7T engine, so I'll start with the huge caveat that the current TDI might be different - but I suspect not. Search here for "break-in oil" or the like and sit down for a day of reading - my recollection is that most folks who had high oil consumption later in life had changed out the factory fill oil early.

I know a lot of conventional wisdom was "change early, change often" but even back in 2000 it was clear that then-modern German engines were built tight enough to require different break-in procedures. I had to literally grit my teeth and hold myself back from doing a 1000mi change and stick it out for 5000mi 'til first service.... But 113,000 miles later my engine has not exhibited any signs of oil consumption (now LEAKAGE is another story ).

I didn't mean to re-open the first change debate, just to point out that you seemed to be overlooking the data in front of you: namely your oil analysis is consistent with 0W30 not the dealer B.S., so IMNSHO you need to really question what your dealer is telling you.

FWIW, I may be mistaken on the manual telling me not to change our the factory fill oil, perhaps it was my departed Audi master tech. Regardless it was the consensus here on AW back in 2000 for the 2.7T, but it's a near-religious argument.
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Old 01-15-2014, 04:47 AM   #6
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What was your reason for changing the oil at 625 km and then 2000?
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Old 01-15-2014, 01:33 PM   #7
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My reasoning for changing the oil twice before 2,000km is to get rid of the suspended metal particles in the oil that can potentially harm the rod bearings, cylinder walls, and piston rings.

Richard. I don't get the benefit of keeping the same oil until 5,000mi. Like you said, every conventional wisdom would recommend this. Also, is there a direct correlation of burning oil to doing initial oil change early? Might be just a coincident? or it might be the fact that you've taken care of your 113,000mile motor without much abuse during cold starts etc.

I've talked to several mechanics and they all suggest to change the oil after break in period (~2,000km). If you can shed some light on this it would be great.

Thanks
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Old 01-15-2014, 01:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Superfly_A6 View Post
My reasoning for changing the oil twice before 2,000km is to get rid of the suspended metal particles in the oil that can potentially harm the rod bearings, cylinder walls, and piston rings.
Why isn't your oil filter capturing these particles?
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Old 01-15-2014, 02:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Superfly_A6 View Post
My reasoning for changing the oil twice before 2,000km is to get rid of the suspended metal particles in the oil that can potentially harm the rod bearings, cylinder walls, and piston rings.

Richard. I don't get the benefit of keeping the same oil until 5,000mi. Like you said, every conventional wisdom would recommend this. Also, is there a direct correlation of burning oil to doing initial oil change early? Might be just a coincident? or it might be the fact that you've taken care of your 113,000mile motor without much abuse during cold starts etc.

I've talked to several mechanics and they all suggest to change the oil after break in period (~2,000km). If you can shed some light on this it would be great.
There's a ton of great info here on Audiworld, make you own decision on the correlation. My experience is posted just to say that as one who followed the breakin and first oil change and is not having excessive consumption. What I remember of these decade-old discussions is that of the people complaining of excessive consumption, many/most had changed early. That doesn't mean that everyone who changed early had problems, just that it appeared that there was a strong correlation between having problems and having changed early.

One theory is that modern machining tolerances are so tight that rings *NEED* those suspended metal particles to seat properly. I'm an electrical engineer, not a mechanical engineer, so I'm staying mostly out of that. Search the forums, read the postings, make your own decision - just make it informed, not based on 20-30yo conventional wisdom. YMMV, professional driver on closed course, etc, etc, etc.
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:29 PM   #10
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Well said. Add another C5 (mine) to the list of those who followed the AOA recommended initial oil change intervals. And I can affirmatively say that at 198,000 miles there have been ZERO oil consumption issues, to include no issues with the K03 turbos.
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:29 PM
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