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will the Audi pre sense automatically stop the car in front of a collision?

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Old 02-25-2014, 02:49 PM   #1
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Default will the Audi pre sense automatically stop the car in front of a collision?

under low speed?

I have the driver assistance package but never had the chance to test this out.

the only functionality so far(I've experienced) is a warning light in the dash and seat belt tension itself if someone is approaching from behind too fast and too close.
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:29 PM   #2
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Form the videos on YouTube and the manual it is worded to say it will reduce the intensity of a collision I do not think it will prevent it in certain situations. I had it kick in a once when a car in front of me slowed saddenly to make a turn and while I felt it start to brake I am not sure it would have braked enough. I am sure some of the wording is legal requirement as to not set a false sense of expectation that it will prevent the impact in all cases.
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:36 PM   #3
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Form the videos on YouTube and the manual it is worded to say it will reduce the intensity of a collision I do not think it will prevent it in certain situations. I had it kick in a once when a car in front of me slowed saddenly to make a turn and while I felt it start to brake I am not sure it would have braked enough. I am sure some of the wording is legal requirement as to not set a false sense of expectation that it will prevent the impact in all cases.
I am curious will it do something like this?
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Old 02-25-2014, 04:08 PM   #4
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Dunno ... but I want that inflatable crash dummy!!!
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:31 PM   #5
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The manual is VERY specific on what the car will do and stopping completely is not how it is designed. Other cars are programmed to completely stop and in fact there was recently a news reports (forget which station) that dinged Audi for not adequately stopping (automatically) to completely avoid a collision.

I am too lazy to read the manual right now but the protocol is something like this.

Imminent collision (in each case assume you don't do anything):

System provided visual and auditory alert (and if you do nothing...)
System provides brief sharp braking to get your attention
System then starts slowing at 3m/s/s.
System then starts slowing at 5 m/s/s.
(something like) 1/2 second before the collision the system slows down at full breaking.
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:32 PM   #6
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Oh, yea, I forgot. If at ANY point you touch the brakes the system takes that as permission to apply whatever braking force is necessary to prevent the collision (if possible).
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:00 PM   #7
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Oh, yea, I forgot. If at ANY point you touch the brakes the system takes that as permission to apply whatever braking force is necessary to prevent the collision (if possible).
Not exactly. If you do nothing at all when that warning comes up, the car will brake hard. It's happened to me twice. It's standard operating procedure now to give more distance to the car turning right into a driveway, since if you keep a 3+ second gap and don't change lanes or slow down and the turning car takes it's sweet *** time pulling into the street or driveway, the car will brake.

Just today, in fact, I actually kept my foot on the accelerator and the car continued to brake. It first slowed down but then went hard on the brakes. I did not reach full stop because the offending slow turning car got out of the way. I'd say it left about a 20' gap after it started to brake hard. But it was starting to brake about 50' away.

When it happens, you'll know.

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Old 02-25-2014, 07:02 PM   #8
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There are 4 or 5 pages in the manual dedicated to Presense and Braking guard. There are actually 3 levels of Presense; Presense basic (all Audis), Presense Rear (included w/Side Assist) and Presense Front (included with ACC). Presense Plus includes all three systems.

The Presense Front is directly coupled to the Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC), includes Brake Guard and like ACC, at 20 mph+, monitors followed vehicles and does not recognize stationary or small objects like people, some bikes, etc. If a followed car in front suddenly slows or stops, the Brake Guard will first provide a visible warning in the DIS followed by an audible tone and if the driver doesn't respond appropriately, will attempt to slow by applying the brakes and, if necessary, attempt to brake the car to a full stop. The Brake Guard will not engage if it comes upon a stationary object including a previously stopped vehicle that wasn't already being tracked by the ACC or a wall, tree, light pole, etc.

My take - It's really a matter of design philosophy. I believe Audi designed the system to avoid collisions with the least amount of automatic intervention in order to not excessively intrude on the driver's control. In other words, I think Audi could design a system to alert and stop the car sooner for earlier warning of a collision but it would be at the expense of more frequent alerts and earlier auto braking, perhaps to the "nannying" frustration of drivers. Consequently, as designed, Audi states in the manual that their safety systems (or all others for that matter) cannot overcome the laws of physics. No auto braking system can stop a 4000 vehicle traveling at 45 mph in time as a car pulls out of a driveway right in front of you or a car in front comes to a screeching halt if you're too close.

An automatic accident avoidance system can't totally prevent a collision while at the same time, not intrude with the driving experience to some degree. I, for one, would not want an automatic accident avoidance system that engages too soon and too frequently, overriding and dampening my driving enjoyment. As the Audi systems are designed, I feel it's probably a reasonably balanced compromise between safety, comfort and driver control. At the end of the day, like ACC, Side Assist, Lane Assist, cameras, etc, Presense and Brake Guard are aids, not replacements for common sense; the driver must still ultimately be responsible for the safe operation of the vehicle.

I think it's important that every owner spend a few minutes to carefully read the manual sections addressing the various Presense and Brake Guard systems as equipped in their own vehicle. Forewarned is forearmed.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:03 PM   #9
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The key point from reading the manual and the replies is that the Audi Brake Guard won't stop you "when approaching a stopped vehicle or stationary obstacle".
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:28 AM   #10
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The key point from reading the manual and the replies is that the Audi Brake Guard won't stop you "when approaching a stopped vehicle or stationary obstacle".
Correct, unless the Presense Front/Brake Guard system was already detecting a moving vehicle before it stopped. (The manual states so long as Brake Guard is not turned off in the MMI and the ESC button is not disabled by the driver, it will detect a moving, followed vehicle even if ACC is not activated).
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:20 AM   #11
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Correct, unless the Presense Front/Brake Guard system was already detecting a moving vehicle before it stopped. (The manual states so long as Brake Guard is not turned off in the MMI and the ESC button is not disabled by the driver, it will detect a moving, followed vehicle even if ACC is not activated).
OR... unless you have ACC and set the cruise control and you are approaching stopped traffic. The car, when cruise control is on, will come to a complete stop in traffic.

Pre-sense and braking guard will slam on the brakes when cruise control ACC is not activated.

The warning on the display is very brief (depending on how quickly you are approaching a car ahead) before it starts to brake hard.

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Old 03-17-2014, 06:08 AM   #12
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I have experienced a number of false positives with the Audi Pre Sense that have created some frightening and dangerous situations.

Here is my understanding and research into the matter.

As described above and explained by Audi, the Pre Sense uses radar and camera information to track moving vehicles in front of your car starting at 6 MPH.

If it senses a possible collision, it gives warnings, can apply braking, closes the windows/sun roof and can also tighten the seat belts.

I have had a handful of events in the past 18 months where my 2013 S6 has braked unexpectedly when there was no obstruction in front of me.

The Use Case is very specific when this happens.

When following a vehicle that has a long body portion behind the rear wheels (think school bus with 10+ feet, long bed pickup trucks with 6 feet or airport vans with 8 feet).

When following these vehicles and the vehicles turns left or right out of the traveled path, their rear portion "swings out" on sharp turns. The radar and camera seem to register that the vehicle is coming back into a collision path, even though they are NOT in the Audi's path.

The result is anything from a chirp to a hard braking and seat belt tightening. It is pretty alarming when the car brakes hard and you clearly see that the Audi had room to continue straight without a collision.

More importantly, a vehicle following behind is not expecting a "panic stop" and I was just about rear ended the last time this happened.

The Use Case does NOT happen when you have normal cars and smaller bed trucks, which don't swing out.

My theory is that the Germans did not factor the typical American pickup trucks when they programmed the Pre Sense.

AoA understood my problem, but the CSR had no clue how to escalate it.

My dealer said they had heard about something similar and suggested that I change the settings for the Adaptive Cruise Control, but this has nothing to do with Adaptive Cruise Control.

I am at the point of wanting to write a letter to the CEO of Audi Germany asking where this issue should be escalated, as no one seems to know what to do.

Keep y'all posted...
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:44 AM   #13
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I been going through some of the Audi videos on these subjects and I think that Pre Sense is somewhat misunderstood. Pre Sense and Braking Guard will only provide a "jolt" if it senses an impending collision, however it is not actually slowing the car significantly (certainly not so much that you'll be rear-ended by anybody that's not attached to your bumper). It will pre-charge the braking hydraulics and await user intervention. Any pedal application will result in full braking (Brake Assist), if necessary, in order to prevent said collision. Furthermore, it will attenuate the braking force so as to maintain a minimum distance from the car ahead, which also minimizes your chance of being rear-ended.

In other words, the system only slows or stops you with driver intervention. It also brakes such that you'll be rear-ended only if you would have, in turn, rear-ended the car in front of you (or the driver behind is ridiculously close and/or asleep at the switch).


Of course, it's possible that I misunderstand. Feel free to present contradictory evidence if you have it.
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:20 AM   #14
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In other words, the system only slows or stops you with driver intervention. It also brakes such that you'll be rear-ended only if you would have, in turn, rear-ended the car in front of you (or the driver behind is ridiculously close and/or asleep at the switch).

Of course, it's possible that I misunderstand. Feel free to present contradictory evidence if you have it.
I don't think that's the way it works. This review video shows the driver closing up to a stopping, followed car with no intervention. It illustrates the sequence of the red car symbol in the DIS, audible alert, then a gradual braking then a hard braking to come to a stop. I believe if the driver intervenes by stepping on the brake, the braking guard will not engage if the system determines that the driver's action will be able to avoid a collision

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Old 03-17-2014, 09:47 AM   #15
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I don't think that's the way it works. This review video shows the driver closing up to a stopping, followed car with no intervention. It illustrates the sequence of the red car symbol in the DIS, audible alert, then a gradual braking then a hard braking to come to a stop. I believe if the driver intervenes by stepping on the brake, the braking guard will not engage if the system determines that the driver's action will be able to avoid a collision
Okay, there are two portions of this video of interest:
  1. Approx. 3:45 - the car will warn and, if driver does not react, if will perform Autonomous Partial Braking
  2. Approx. 4:08 - As above, will brake autonomously with a maximum 30% braking pressure. If the driver attempts to brake, even weakly, it will calculate how much pressure is required to stop in time (but not use any more than that)

When I reviewed this video during the great ACC debate (whether the front high-mounted camera is used or not), I fixated on the second part, and only part of that. Mea culpa.

However, the new take-away is that autonomous braking is only performed up to a maximum of 30% and that driver intervention, however tentative, is required to actually prevent a collision (in the most severe situations). The 30% maximum will certainly help prevent you being rear-ended, even in a false positive scenario.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:20 AM   #16
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At the end of the day, I guess the driver should be paying attention so that Presense never comes into play. It's how I've been driving since 48 years ago before all of these automatic systems were even imagined other than in science fiction stories. I'm sure in another 25 years people will be saying "how did we ever manage without self-driving cars?"
That said, I still love my ACC on long highway drives (but not so much in stop and go traffic).
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:37 AM   #17
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Okay, there are two portions of this video of interest:
  1. Approx. 3:45 - the car will warn and, if driver does not react, if will perform Autonomous Partial Braking
  2. Approx. 4:08 - As above, will brake autonomously with a maximum 30% braking pressure. If the driver attempts to brake, even weakly, it will calculate how much pressure is required to stop in time (but not use any more than that)

When I reviewed this video during the great ACC debate (whether the front high-mounted camera is used or not), I fixated on the second part, and only part of that. Mea culpa.

However, the new take-away is that autonomous braking is only performed up to a maximum of 30% and that driver intervention, however tentative, is required to actually prevent a collision (in the most severe situations). The 30% maximum will certainly help prevent you being rear-ended, even in a false positive scenario.
My understanding was that the 30% was only the initial reaction. Presense plus can use up to 100% braking if needed. Here is a video I saw when we were discussing the front video being used or not.

http://www.euroncap.com/Player.aspx?...0-bf3a720b6de7
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:06 PM   #18
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It seems you're right. I wish Audi would make information like this more easily available without having to piece things together from multiple (and often disparate) sources.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:20 PM   #19
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Just realized I hadn't responded to the original post with my experience. My wife actually re-ended someone with my S6 while coming up on an intersection. Because she was already braking she wasn't sure if the braking guard kicked in or not. I was surprised and disappointed that the presense didn't prevent the collision but it might have mitigated it. Like others, I had 'false alarms' where it had given me a warning and even engaged when there wasn't a stopped car in my path. So with it so 'sensitive' I had a lot of confidence in it, in preventing a collision.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:35 PM   #20
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Just realized I hadn't responded to the original post with my experience. My wife actually re-ended someone with my S6 while coming up on an intersection. Because she was already braking she wasn't sure if the braking guard kicked in or not. I was surprised and disappointed that the presense didn't prevent the collision but it might have mitigated it. Like others, I had 'false alarms' where it had given me a warning and even engaged when there wasn't a stopped car in my path. So with it so 'sensitive' I had a lot of confidence in it, in preventing a collision.
Does your S6 have ACC? Not indicated in your signature.
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