ultradub

I had an Audi Dealer inspect the vehicle and from what they can determine, no damage has been incurred by the improper towing (used a conventional tower) although i am still a bit weary of future problems, there is little I can do to determine that at this time.

Thank you Paul and everyone else who responded to my initial post.

skiracer

as a minimum get a letter from the towing company stating that they will be responsible for any repairs to the drivetrain (tranny, torsen, differentials) that occur in the next year (at least) that COULD be attributable to the improper towing. Without this in writing, you could be hung out to dry in three months when the tranny goes. I really hope that no damage has been done, but a CYA letter is certainly called for.

ultradub

Unfortunately they are unwilling to take responsibility for that great of length of time, yet the vehicle is still under warranty. Hopefully if anything does show up in the future, it will be a warranty issue.

2001 A8L

I don't have any idea how the dealer could inspect the transmission and torsen without at a minimum draining and checking the fluid and AT filter. This would be a $200 dollars at a minimum. A simple lets drive and see what we see is certainly not a thorough inspection.

Sort of like saying - you look great - even though your suffering from cancer.

The dealer is digging you a deeper hole, especially if you have already informed the tow company that they have inspected it and state that they have not found a problem... a responsible dealer would ask you for a couple of hours labor an ATF flush, Torsen drain...look for metal particles and general deterioration...

Sounds like you've been screwed 1st by the tow company and now by the idiots at the dealership.

If the dealer has a tech that actually understands how the quattro system functions he/she would know that there are reasons to be concerned...tie this to the fact that the transmission are already a weak link to begin with....

I'd get another dealer to look at it closer with the tow company agreeing to pay for the ATF and fluid changes...AT A MINIMUM!!!!!!

Good luck...

ultradub

Thank you, actually I have another appointment tomorrow at another dealer, and that is what they suggested as well.

PaulW

I can't directly speak about Audis, but I have had this exact experience with my Range Rover. The legalities took 18 months to resolve with a lawyer and some expert testimony. I won, but have received $2 to date. It is definitely worth pursuing though. Towing operators are required to know proper recovery methods for the vehicles they are dealing with. The center differential might not be ruined, but it will have its wear greatly accelerated. A known Audi mechanic will be required to testify this in court. Good luck.

PaulW

First, if you want to learn more about what could of possibly happened to your tranny, do a search on audiworld for "towing quattro" and you'll find a ton of hits.

Or if you want an even bigger database, go to <a href="http://www.audifans.com">www.audifans.com</a> and do a search there too. There is about 15 years of posts.

The problem that you will encounter is with your torsen. It splits the power from the tranny output to the rear wheels and to the front wheels.

<img src="http://www.autoreview.ru/new_site/year2002/n18/audi/800/A8020096.jpg">

I don't have time to mark the picture up, it's actually from the new A8 (2004 model). But you can see from the top right, the torque converter (looks like a turbine) which the engine inputs into, then it goes through the hydraulics for the gears. This section has all Audi ATF fluid in it.

Then it goes into the distributor gear which is just aft of the ATF compartment, it's filled with gear lube. That is where the two big gears at the back of the tranny are.

That shaft sends power to the rear diff (called final drive - rear) and up to the final drive - front.

You can see the long shaft on the right side bottom of the tranny that sends the power back forward. It then goes to both front axles.

I BELIEVE (somebody please second check me) that the torsen is the device at the aft end of the shaft that goes to the final drive - front (in the distributor). In the picture above it would be just foward of the two large gears at the aft of the tranny, you can see two smaller gears on the forward end of the shaft that goes to the rear output flange and to the shaft that drives the final drive - front.

It's a mechanical device and distributes the power from front to rear.

From what I can tell, you can tow your quattro on the rear wheels for short distances (less than 5 miles) at low speeds (less than 40 MPH) with minimal damage to the torsen and tranny components.

What does your owner's manual state?

Anything more than that you could have trouble.

At a minimum, I would have a dealer do the following (with the towing company to pay):

1. Drop the tranny pan and inspect for metal, foreign material, etc. Replace the tranny filter and tranny oil.

2. Drain the distributor gear oil, check for metal particles and refill.

3. Drain the final drive - front, check for metal particles and refill.

4. Drain the final drive - rear, check for metal particles and refill.

If the towing company will not accept responsibility to for a period of a year, then they should pay to have these things done.

From reading other posts, you could of defintely had transmission and torsen damage, but it's not sudden and catastrphic, it can take time to develop.

The first dealer has no idea what they are talking about.

Good luck.

pw

ryoung

.
With the transmission in neutral, the input from the torque converter and the output shaft to the Torsen are disconnected. Towing the car results in spinning the "rear" of the transmission, but the hydraulic pump is probably driven off the input side. As a result, the pump is providing no lubrication in the transmission while it's being towed. I can imagine that this can damage the transmission if it's towed too far or too fast.

Regarding the Torsen itself, maybe it's best to call Torsen and get their opinion. It's very possible that towing would not harm it, as long as the front is in the air with the wheels free to spin.<ul><li><a href="http://www.torsen.com/">Torsen Inc</a></li></ul>

ryoung

.
but the layout in that great pic isn't exactly it.

I'm surprised that the Torsen's output shaft to the front diff is driven by the ring gear (which isn't visible) rather than off the planetary worm gears like the output to the rear.

I'm surprised at how clean the front diff installation is. Perhaps it's "easy" to replace the open front and rear diffs with Torsens also? This could just about replace electronic traction control, but the biggest benefit would be reducing understeer on full power corner exits.

Trivia: The HumVee uses an open lockable center differential, but the front and rear are both Torsens.

ultradub

Paul thank you for your informative post. You had more helpful information and insight than 11 dealers that I called yesterday. I have another dealer inspecting it tomorrow, and I will print this page as my bible and hopefully see what develops.