2013 Audi A8 L totaled (hopefully) with only 2800 miles...
03-08-2014, 12:40 PM
#41
AudiWorld Junior Member
While we like to bash lawyers, you need to retain one as soon as possible. You are entitled to three things as far as your car is concerned.
1. Correctly repair the car
2. Diminished value
3. Loss of use. In other words, how much would it cost you per day to rent a similar car?
Once the expenses for all three categories above are totaled, you have a very good chance that your car will be declared a total loss. Whatever you do, DO NOT let anyone start the repair process until you have spoken to, and retained a lawyer who specializes in insurance claims.
Good luck.
1. Correctly repair the car
2. Diminished value
3. Loss of use. In other words, how much would it cost you per day to rent a similar car?
Once the expenses for all three categories above are totaled, you have a very good chance that your car will be declared a total loss. Whatever you do, DO NOT let anyone start the repair process until you have spoken to, and retained a lawyer who specializes in insurance claims.
Good luck.
03-10-2014, 02:47 AM
#44
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* And he told me about timing. This A8 (the one that scraped a pole and $41k damage) had been in there since September. Still not complete - waiting on a few parts before they can proceed. Parts are taking forever and are difficult to get. They (and Audi) estimate 1 week minimum for each $1000 in repairs. If we are to assume my car is well past $50k in damages, we're looking into 2015 before I see my car again (of course, while still required to make payments on it and have insurance on it). The manager said that timing was a very realistic possibility. 42+ weeks until my car is fixed. WTF.
Secondly, you are not at-fault in this accident, so rental car coverage is the responsibility of the third party. You are supposed to be "made whole" which includes temporary transportation during the repairs. Regardless of "rental coverage" through your own policy, this is still an expense that must be covered by the at-fault party. You are also allowed for equal caliber rental, so insist that basic crap box rental is not adequate. Therefore, you may be able to max them out on $150/day just for a rental car prior to any repairs. This would force at-fault to deplete their $25k limit faster and also force your insurance to foot more of the bill due to under-insured limits per your policy.
Just because you don't have rental coverage from your own insurance does not mean you are not entitled to relief by the at-fault party.
Definitely get your own estimate before approving any work. If I was in your predicament, I would push hard for a rental car that is equivalent to what you had. When the at-fault insurance mentions anything about daily $ limits, ask for it in writing. The same goes for maximum rental time, get it in writing (it's normally 30 days max). When the body shop mentions that the car will need to be in repair for longer than the rental coverage, ask your insurance what happens with your transportation. They will ask you about your second car - don't let that be an option.
You will need to hit your adjuster with questions that will show you are knowledgable. They are paid to get you back on the road at minimal cost to their employer. They are not paid to make you happy, so don't count on them coming up with ideas to make this a smooth and easy process for you. They can only omit solutions that will cost them money...
As for the repairs, I'd say that's still second to the injuries you sustained.
At this point, you're probably going to have to pull the pin and lob the personal injury attorney at everyone.
Last edited by in2dwww; 03-10-2014 at 02:50 AM.
03-10-2014, 03:46 AM
#45
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First thing.... yes, Audi parts will take forever to obtain. This will stretch out the wait time.
Secondly, you are not at-fault in this accident, so rental car coverage is the responsibility of the third party. You are supposed to be "made whole" which includes temporary transportation during the repairs. Regardless of "rental coverage" through your own policy, this is still an expense that must be covered by the at-fault party. You are also allowed for equal caliber rental, so insist that basic crap box rental is not adequate. Therefore, you may be able to max them out on $150/day just for a rental car prior to any repairs. This would force at-fault to deplete their $25k limit faster and also force your insurance to foot more of the bill due to under-insured limits per your policy.
Just because you don't have rental coverage from your own insurance does not mean you are not entitled to relief by the at-fault party.
Definitely get your own estimate before approving any work. If I was in your predicament, I would push hard for a rental car that is equivalent to what you had. When the at-fault insurance mentions anything about daily $ limits, ask for it in writing. The same goes for maximum rental time, get it in writing (it's normally 30 days max). When the body shop mentions that the car will need to be in repair for longer than the rental coverage, ask your insurance what happens with your transportation. They will ask you about your second car - don't let that be an option.
You will need to hit your adjuster with questions that will show you are knowledgable. They are paid to get you back on the road at minimal cost to their employer. They are not paid to make you happy, so don't count on them coming up with ideas to make this a smooth and easy process for you. They can only omit solutions that will cost them money...
As for the repairs, I'd say that's still second to the injuries you sustained.
At this point, you're probably going to have to pull the pin and lob the personal injury attorney at everyone.
Secondly, you are not at-fault in this accident, so rental car coverage is the responsibility of the third party. You are supposed to be "made whole" which includes temporary transportation during the repairs. Regardless of "rental coverage" through your own policy, this is still an expense that must be covered by the at-fault party. You are also allowed for equal caliber rental, so insist that basic crap box rental is not adequate. Therefore, you may be able to max them out on $150/day just for a rental car prior to any repairs. This would force at-fault to deplete their $25k limit faster and also force your insurance to foot more of the bill due to under-insured limits per your policy.
Just because you don't have rental coverage from your own insurance does not mean you are not entitled to relief by the at-fault party.
Definitely get your own estimate before approving any work. If I was in your predicament, I would push hard for a rental car that is equivalent to what you had. When the at-fault insurance mentions anything about daily $ limits, ask for it in writing. The same goes for maximum rental time, get it in writing (it's normally 30 days max). When the body shop mentions that the car will need to be in repair for longer than the rental coverage, ask your insurance what happens with your transportation. They will ask you about your second car - don't let that be an option.
You will need to hit your adjuster with questions that will show you are knowledgable. They are paid to get you back on the road at minimal cost to their employer. They are not paid to make you happy, so don't count on them coming up with ideas to make this a smooth and easy process for you. They can only omit solutions that will cost them money...
As for the repairs, I'd say that's still second to the injuries you sustained.
At this point, you're probably going to have to pull the pin and lob the personal injury attorney at everyone.
This is the type of post you get when people who have zero knowledge of the claims process or state laws give advice...advice like this, if believed, will only set you up for extreme disappointment...
you are not "allowed for an equal caliber vehicle". nothing in the law, or case law supports this statement at all...
additionally, if you're not at fault for an accident there is no "maximum rental time" when proceeding through the at fault party's carrier...loss of use/rental is based on the number of labor hours from the original estimate plus any subsequent supplements from your body shop, and the time it takes for parts to be delivered...
a vehicle is deemed a total loss if the cost of repairs are ≥ the actual cash value of the vehicle...the cost of the rental plays zero roll in this equation...
basically everything in the above post is just plain wrong...
03-12-2014, 11:42 AM
#46
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hello everyone,
Wanted to give you an update for this week:
* The insurance adjusters did NOT place the first repair estimate in their computer system properly, so we lost about a week as they had to do it again yesterday. (ASIDE: It really doesn't matter as you will see, it's a very low estimate that is not accurate).
* The repair estimate from Progressive is $27,325. That includes $5,400 of labor and almost $22,000 in parts. That seems very low.
* There are 4 single-spaced pages of lists of parts that are included in the estimate. Some are listed as just "remove," some are remove/refinish (which I don't like - but there are very few of these). Most are remove/replace. The parts to replace/refinish include the following categories (with many SKUs under each category):
- Information Labels (like the air bag labels, VIN sticker (that's on the frame below the driver door), etc.)
- Front Fender (refinish)
- Air Bag System & Sensors
- Engine/Under Body Covers
- Electrical Connectors (battery terminal)
- Windshield moulding
- Seat Belt Replacement
- Front Seat trim pieces
- Front/Rear door replacement of just about everything
- Roof channel
- Side Body/Side Rocker (I am assuming that this is the frame - several dozen SKUs here)
- Quarter Glass
- Door Glass (I need to make sure it's the dual-pane...)
- Extensive Painting/Clear Coat
Now, the Audi collision center guys (and gals) will use this as a starting point and add to it. Remember to total loss this car, we need to be closer to $40k instead of $27k. But looking thru the 4-page list, I see a lot of things missing:
- ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM: Ensuring that all of the B&O speakers in the doors/b-pillars etc. are still 100% in working condition. It's a $5k+ stereo - and I am unsure whether the collision damaged the speakers (or the entire system - the stereo was on at the time of the accident and wouldn't turn back on). If any of the cones on these $$$ speakers have even the possibility of damage, I want them replaced - the stereo is one of the reasons I bought this car.
- Ensuring that the noise canceling system (with the microphones in the headliner) is still 100% operable. Same too with the interior LED lighting system. These are not mentioned on the parts list.
- Ensuring the rear window shade is operable (glass was broken on rear passenger door). This was not on the parts list.
- Any damage made to the interior trim pieces or their connection to the new doors.
- Ensuring the power door closers are installed and operable (as well as the TIGHT tolerance between the new frame and the new doors and the existing body).
- Calibrating Audi PreSense, Adaptive Cruise Control and all cameras and other car systems that were in a traumatic enough crash to make this huge car (traveling only about 40 mph) spin 270 degrees.
And the most important thing - the transmission after the tow truck bozo dragged the car onto the flat bed truck. I have video of this, BTW.
The car would not turn on after the accident (the car was still receiving power as the dash was lit up, as shown in some of my pics), but the car wouldn't start and wouldn't shift out of gear...
So, $27 to $40+ is where we need to be. Having seen other cars on this forum (and A8s in the collision center) with less damage in the $40k+ realm, I am still nervous but not worried.
Anything else you would think I need to note when the Audi folks do their tear-down (which is happening this week)? I'm supposed to hear back on Tuesday for the collision center's estimate. Should I let them do their thing, or share this list with them? Advice is appreciated.
Thanks again,
Adam
Wanted to give you an update for this week:
* The insurance adjusters did NOT place the first repair estimate in their computer system properly, so we lost about a week as they had to do it again yesterday. (ASIDE: It really doesn't matter as you will see, it's a very low estimate that is not accurate).
* The repair estimate from Progressive is $27,325. That includes $5,400 of labor and almost $22,000 in parts. That seems very low.
* There are 4 single-spaced pages of lists of parts that are included in the estimate. Some are listed as just "remove," some are remove/refinish (which I don't like - but there are very few of these). Most are remove/replace. The parts to replace/refinish include the following categories (with many SKUs under each category):
- Information Labels (like the air bag labels, VIN sticker (that's on the frame below the driver door), etc.)
- Front Fender (refinish)
- Air Bag System & Sensors
- Engine/Under Body Covers
- Electrical Connectors (battery terminal)
- Windshield moulding
- Seat Belt Replacement
- Front Seat trim pieces
- Front/Rear door replacement of just about everything
- Roof channel
- Side Body/Side Rocker (I am assuming that this is the frame - several dozen SKUs here)
- Quarter Glass
- Door Glass (I need to make sure it's the dual-pane...)
- Extensive Painting/Clear Coat
Now, the Audi collision center guys (and gals) will use this as a starting point and add to it. Remember to total loss this car, we need to be closer to $40k instead of $27k. But looking thru the 4-page list, I see a lot of things missing:
- ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM: Ensuring that all of the B&O speakers in the doors/b-pillars etc. are still 100% in working condition. It's a $5k+ stereo - and I am unsure whether the collision damaged the speakers (or the entire system - the stereo was on at the time of the accident and wouldn't turn back on). If any of the cones on these $$$ speakers have even the possibility of damage, I want them replaced - the stereo is one of the reasons I bought this car.
- Ensuring that the noise canceling system (with the microphones in the headliner) is still 100% operable. Same too with the interior LED lighting system. These are not mentioned on the parts list.
- Ensuring the rear window shade is operable (glass was broken on rear passenger door). This was not on the parts list.
- Any damage made to the interior trim pieces or their connection to the new doors.
- Ensuring the power door closers are installed and operable (as well as the TIGHT tolerance between the new frame and the new doors and the existing body).
- Calibrating Audi PreSense, Adaptive Cruise Control and all cameras and other car systems that were in a traumatic enough crash to make this huge car (traveling only about 40 mph) spin 270 degrees.
And the most important thing - the transmission after the tow truck bozo dragged the car onto the flat bed truck. I have video of this, BTW.
The car would not turn on after the accident (the car was still receiving power as the dash was lit up, as shown in some of my pics), but the car wouldn't start and wouldn't shift out of gear...
So, $27 to $40+ is where we need to be. Having seen other cars on this forum (and A8s in the collision center) with less damage in the $40k+ realm, I am still nervous but not worried.
Anything else you would think I need to note when the Audi folks do their tear-down (which is happening this week)? I'm supposed to hear back on Tuesday for the collision center's estimate. Should I let them do their thing, or share this list with them? Advice is appreciated.
Thanks again,
Adam
Last edited by adamcb; 03-12-2014 at 12:08 PM.
03-12-2014, 12:11 PM
#48
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Snagitseven,
The driver's side frame is not just bent, but the B-Pillar has inclusions (tearing) where other frame pieces cut into it from the collision.
One thing I asked the inspector to look at (based upon the keen eyes of you guys in the forum) is whether there is frame damage under the carpet as well as on the passenger side (where the gapping of those doors was suspicious in the post-accident pictures I uploaded).
I'm pretty sure they are planning on replacing the entire side-body frame, and I saw an A8 they were in the middle of doing this at the collision center. Obviously, if they find frame damage outside of the side frame, that will put us over the edge for total loss.
Adam
The driver's side frame is not just bent, but the B-Pillar has inclusions (tearing) where other frame pieces cut into it from the collision.
One thing I asked the inspector to look at (based upon the keen eyes of you guys in the forum) is whether there is frame damage under the carpet as well as on the passenger side (where the gapping of those doors was suspicious in the post-accident pictures I uploaded).
I'm pretty sure they are planning on replacing the entire side-body frame, and I saw an A8 they were in the middle of doing this at the collision center. Obviously, if they find frame damage outside of the side frame, that will put us over the edge for total loss.
Adam
03-17-2014, 09:18 PM
#49
AudiWorld Super User
Other adds:
If car won't start, I expect that is the auto kill switch set up. IIRC that is some kind of sacrificial electrical/electronic device that needs replacing, or at least resetting.
Don't (at least) the front seats have pyro charges in the headrests that force them forward in a crash? If so, expect that needs replacing in the driver's seat, and checking that the others remain armed and ready.
More generally, don't you also expect a full scan of the car, every system, and with no errors in any component even vaguely connected w/ this crash at the conclusion of the work? That is, not just narrowly the B&O or the airbag system, but the whole car electrically and electronically.
Don't (at least) the front seats have pyro charges in the headrests that force them forward in a crash? If so, expect that needs replacing in the driver's seat, and checking that the others remain armed and ready.
More generally, don't you also expect a full scan of the car, every system, and with no errors in any component even vaguely connected w/ this crash at the conclusion of the work? That is, not just narrowly the B&O or the airbag system, but the whole car electrically and electronically.
03-19-2014, 03:33 PM
#50
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This is the type of post you get when people who have zero knowledge of the claims process or state laws give advice...advice like this, if believed, will only set you up for extreme disappointment...
you are not "allowed for an equal caliber vehicle". nothing in the law, or case law supports this statement at all...
additionally, if you're not at fault for an accident there is no "maximum rental time" when proceeding through the at fault party's carrier...loss of use/rental is based on the number of labor hours from the original estimate plus any subsequent supplements from your body shop, and the time it takes for parts to be delivered...
a vehicle is deemed a total loss if the cost of repairs are ≥ the actual cash value of the vehicle...the cost of the rental plays zero roll in this equation...
basically everything in the above post is just plain wrong...
you are not "allowed for an equal caliber vehicle". nothing in the law, or case law supports this statement at all...
additionally, if you're not at fault for an accident there is no "maximum rental time" when proceeding through the at fault party's carrier...loss of use/rental is based on the number of labor hours from the original estimate plus any subsequent supplements from your body shop, and the time it takes for parts to be delivered...
a vehicle is deemed a total loss if the cost of repairs are ≥ the actual cash value of the vehicle...the cost of the rental plays zero roll in this equation...
basically everything in the above post is just plain wrong...
Last edited by in2dwww; 03-19-2014 at 03:42 PM.