SCarGo02

...whatever brand the strut mounts were that I put on the S6 must have been made in China as they're clunking over bumps already -- it's just under a year and about 8k miles, doh!

DaveInSaltLake

In essence, he stressed the differnce between the QA/QC and mfg standards between Febi and the other 'cheap junk' brands being mf'd in China, and gave a thought provoking response. I'll post more soon...gotta run for now.

holg

...because about two years ago I posted in a German forum about that topic and they told me I should use Meyle... they'd be best available. So in the US-forum Meyle is known as crap and in the German it's top of the pops, quite expensive, btw... I was confused and took another -very, very, very cheap- set from Ebay, for 50 EUR (!) the pair. (At least they were stamped as made in Germany.) Since now about 10k miles they work very fine, nothing rusted or worn yet. So I think the Quality -if not purchased at VAG- is more or less fluke.

holg

DaveInSaltLake

Hello Dave,
Your reply illustrates exactly why febi and many other companies
(Toshiba, Wal-Mart, Sony, etc. etc. etc.) have been forced to go to China. Some companies have dramatically impacted the market price by going to China (and other "cost effective" countries) and have made it impossible to survive in the market with strictly European manufactured product. Indeed, in some product lines, it is now nearly impossible not to have Chinese product. It is important to also mention that the costs of doing business in Germany and other European countries has made manufacturing nearly cost prohibitive when compared to other "cost effective" countries. Many German companies have established either their own manufacturing facilities in other countries or have established joint ventures. Take Lemförder as an example. Historically thought of as a German manufacturer, they now have manufacturing facilities in 15 countries, including China, Korea, India,Thailand, Turkey and Mexico.

It is important to realize that China is a very big country with thousands of manufacturing facilities. Not every product made in China is of poor quality. We work very hard to maintain a close watch on our suppliers to insure that we get quality product. We try, where possible to get the OE product that is supplied to VW China, or at least to use the same
suppliers that do supply OE products. I cannot vouch for the methods of any of our other competitors.

Out of curiosity I checked our total return rate for both of the products you have photos of for the life of the product. On the 1J0 959 455 M (febi
14744) our claim rate (for all reasons including shipping damage
which is a big factor with fans, shipping shortages, etc.) was 0.7%. Clearly not a "junk" Chinese part. The 6X0 959 455 C (febi 22518) has a claim rate of 0.9%, again, not a significant number. On both of
these items we have had no claims from North American customers,
including sales to some of our most discerning customers. To make the comparison even more interesting, at one time we had sourced the 1J0 version from a European supplier. The claim rate for the European product was 1.1%, and the claim rate for the Chinese product was 0.6%.

I truly hope that you do scrutinize febi more closely - you'll find a quality product at a fair price. febi is a family owned and operated company that is 164 years old, and is currently managed by the 6th generation of the family. We are still a manufacturer, with our manufacturing facility solely in Germany, where we still make some items that we supply as OEM to German car manufacturers, as well as to many of our competitors.

Indeed as you suggested, we have had to look at the impact of non-European manufactured product in both the short term and long term. As our management board wanted to keep our product line European, they watched other companies in Ennepetal (febi's home town) go out of business because they refused to adapt to the new world market.

We have tried very hard to insure that our brand name still represents German quality, even though the product inside the box may no longer be German.

Wishing you good success and increased profits with febi products
- wherever they are made.

Best Regards,
Jeff Lateer
febi bilstein
Sales Manager North America

J@RO

..mine front control arms rusted after 2 months - so spray paint them with protective enamel...

Not necessary but keeps them in good condition longer. FYI - my original control arms had 160k on them and the ball joints weren't that much loose...
-the mounting to the frame was not that great but it wasn't bad either....

rmccomiskie

...especially the part about "We work very hard to maintain a close watch on our suppliers to insure that we get quality product."

As far as the return rate, I doubt that many of the parts that wear out early get returned. More likely just tossed in the trash and chalked up to experience.

Bad Justin

in ENSURE not insure

ricoblanco

^^ Grammar Police ^^ ;-P

DaveInSaltLake

I have a hard time letting anyone else work on my cars...it's a rare occurance. It's definitely a cost issue, but moreso it's a quality and safety issue. I also critically assess every part I put on both my cars and others' cars. I've developed a certain level of confidence in certain brands and lines of parts, and even in certain suppliers....but this is clearly a moving target.

In this case, the fact that the Febi rep has been willing to frankly discuss the concerns of quality wrt Chinese (and other non-German) factories puts them well ahead of some of the other manufacturers I have had poor first hand experience with. For me, at least, this merits keeping an open mind and continuing to assess the parts as they arrive on my doorstep.

In a similar case, the climbing community was quite taken back when Black Diamond announced their plans to move some of their manufacturing operations to China. Pronouncements of death and doom due to faulty, failed equipment were quickly made from many. In my opinion, the jury is still out on this one....but it's another related area I'm personally watching.

I can only hope that both these companies have a strong management and technical presence in the factories and refuse to compromise their quality standards.

There are numerous other related isses surrounding moving jobs and manufactuing processes to China, Mexico, and other countries where labor cost, environmental protection, worker health/safety are less regulated than in the US, but I don't think this is really the place to discuss it....so I'll leave it at this, for now.

austinado16

This will just start a huge debate, based on the Walmart mentality that 99% of consumers have...and have been lulled into, there is no way any company could afford to make anything in a real country.

As soon as you slap real wages, pollution controls, labor laws, retirement and benefits onto the price of making anything, non of us could afford to buy.

I'll be the first to say, "I hate it." I hate Walmart, and rarely do I ever go into one. But out of the other side of my neck, I'll be the first to say, "I'd rather pay $49 for my Braun electric shaver, than $100. When I needed a radiator fan for the A6, I was glad to pay $113 for new OE, than to go to the dealer and pay $400."

It sucks, it's just going to get worse, and in a few decades, China will own us. Just like what's happened with oil, when we surrender our soles and become 100% relient on someone else.....we're screwed.

So you have to ask yourself...over the live of owning the item you buy, is it cheaper to replace it a time or two, or is it cheaper to 10x the price?

I'm not judging, I'm as much a part of American consumerism as anyone, but I do try to limit my exposure as much as possible.