coolant relays confusion ??
11-18-2016, 01:59 AM
#1
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coolant relays confusion ??
After yesterday flushing with h2o and replacing the coolant sensor switch on the radiator and for the gauge I am left with limited success.
The good news is that the gauge works well within the 10 o'clk position and going towards the 12 o'clk on the gauge itself success.
But the coolant fans will not start up how ever high the temp goes up.
Previously the DPO put in wiring at the coolant sensor switch in the radiator to a toggle switch under the steering column for high and low fan settings. This works well for the driver to keep the car cool. Although for drive ability for anyone but myself the auto fans need to work for obvious safety reasons.
After printing out page 34 from 12v.org on the '96 cab electrical wiring, which I need to study some more to understand where the switch put in by the DPO intersect the oem wiring and then which relays are to be tested. As far as I can tell the added on circuitry only bypassed the switch at the switch so three wires go from the cabin to the switch on the radiator at which the oem wiring is intact only added to with the switch. Which may mean the sensor switch I just put in is (unlikely but ) faulty.
But I was thinking it could be a cooling relay, and went searching under the steering column pulled all relays most looked good others were burnt at the terminals.
Also studying a previous post by Rusty about the 60 amp fuse and relays under the steering column I am confused as the diagram does not correspond to any one under my steering wheel only the location of the 60 Amp fuse corresponds.
Although as Rusty says theat quote "Audi moved relays around depending on the build..." end quote.
On for this I have mapped the fuses (uploaded picture), and there locations for comments on what which I think I know one or two relays the 297 is the shift lock relay and the 217 may be the fuel pump relay not sure was a bit rattly upon shacking it ( the 217 relay).
On the diagram of the schematic of the cooling system from 12v.org the relays I need to identify are 'coolant fan control relay' which is not in the main fuse box under the hood in the cabriolets I understand is under the steering wheel recess. The 'third speed coolant fan speed relay' and its purpose and the 'second speed coolant fan speed relay'.
Again any thoughts I am grateful for
Thanks
Dan
The good news is that the gauge works well within the 10 o'clk position and going towards the 12 o'clk on the gauge itself success.
But the coolant fans will not start up how ever high the temp goes up.
Previously the DPO put in wiring at the coolant sensor switch in the radiator to a toggle switch under the steering column for high and low fan settings. This works well for the driver to keep the car cool. Although for drive ability for anyone but myself the auto fans need to work for obvious safety reasons.
After printing out page 34 from 12v.org on the '96 cab electrical wiring, which I need to study some more to understand where the switch put in by the DPO intersect the oem wiring and then which relays are to be tested. As far as I can tell the added on circuitry only bypassed the switch at the switch so three wires go from the cabin to the switch on the radiator at which the oem wiring is intact only added to with the switch. Which may mean the sensor switch I just put in is (unlikely but ) faulty.
But I was thinking it could be a cooling relay, and went searching under the steering column pulled all relays most looked good others were burnt at the terminals.
Also studying a previous post by Rusty about the 60 amp fuse and relays under the steering column I am confused as the diagram does not correspond to any one under my steering wheel only the location of the 60 Amp fuse corresponds.
Although as Rusty says theat quote "Audi moved relays around depending on the build..." end quote.
On for this I have mapped the fuses (uploaded picture), and there locations for comments on what which I think I know one or two relays the 297 is the shift lock relay and the 217 may be the fuel pump relay not sure was a bit rattly upon shacking it ( the 217 relay).
On the diagram of the schematic of the cooling system from 12v.org the relays I need to identify are 'coolant fan control relay' which is not in the main fuse box under the hood in the cabriolets I understand is under the steering wheel recess. The 'third speed coolant fan speed relay' and its purpose and the 'second speed coolant fan speed relay'.
Again any thoughts I am grateful for
Thanks
Dan
11-18-2016, 05:09 AM
#2
On my car..relay #17 and #18 are the second speed radiator fan and third (high) speed fan. That is the relay panel under the driver's side kick panel. That 217 relay should be the fuel pump relay..if it rattles..replace it.
Audi's documentation is terrible. The "book" say the second speed fan relay is under the hood in the fuse box...it is not.
You indicated that there were some corroded relay connections..that may be a big problem..water may have gotten back inside the relay panel..you need to be sure all the electrical plug connections and relay plugs are clean.
You can test the radiator fan circuit with a short length of wire and 1/4 male blade connectors on each end. Might be a good idea to have an in-line fuse in there if you have not done this before.
If you remove a relay then jump the connection on the relay panel #30 to #87 with the jumper wire..the fan (or whatever the relay controls) should run (with the key on)..either second speed or third..depending on what relay position you are working with.
You can use an old relay too..with the cover removed and trigger the contact closed to test too.
You can test the radiator fan switch..that brass thing in the radiator with this jumper too. You will have three wires in the connector..try jumping one to the other..I think the "brown" wire with a second color trace on it should be the ground...the other two connections will be second or third speed when you bridge them.
If you jump the radiator fan switch, key on, and the fans do work..you have a bad fan switch..if the fans do not work time to go look at fuses, relays and corroded wires.
11-18-2016, 04:01 PM
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Firstly thanks for the effort and time into your reply.
The diagrams of the relay block is totally unfamiliar for my vehicle, what I have and the relay numbers corresponding are in my sketch in the first post, my difficulty is to identify the second speed coolant fan relay, number on the relay of. So then I can remove replace. And possibly the same for the third speed coolant fan relay. The first speed works well with the a/c on, no manual switch.
My first impression from your post and looking again at the schematics of a '96 cab was I was sent and installed a faulty in radiator fan sensor switch, since the PO put in the manual switch over that wiring. And that the manual fans switch and run as the sensor should, but not automatically from the sensor.
If so I just wasted my money, and have to spend about $100 AU on a genuine sensor.
Otherwise and for now as relays can be cheaper I will continue checking relays. Yes I will replace the 217 relay soon, and I sorry if I said corroded electrodes from water some of the electrodes were burnt from heavy use I suspect, not along the coil electrodes of the relay but the switching electrodes.
Dan.
The diagrams of the relay block is totally unfamiliar for my vehicle, what I have and the relay numbers corresponding are in my sketch in the first post, my difficulty is to identify the second speed coolant fan relay, number on the relay of. So then I can remove replace. And possibly the same for the third speed coolant fan relay. The first speed works well with the a/c on, no manual switch.
My first impression from your post and looking again at the schematics of a '96 cab was I was sent and installed a faulty in radiator fan sensor switch, since the PO put in the manual switch over that wiring. And that the manual fans switch and run as the sensor should, but not automatically from the sensor.
If so I just wasted my money, and have to spend about $100 AU on a genuine sensor.
Otherwise and for now as relays can be cheaper I will continue checking relays. Yes I will replace the 217 relay soon, and I sorry if I said corroded electrodes from water some of the electrodes were burnt from heavy use I suspect, not along the coil electrodes of the relay but the switching electrodes.
Dan.
11-19-2016, 08:40 AM
#5
Dan..can you post a picture of the relay panel under the dash? Must be some kind of change with RHD. The under-dash relay panel is on the left hand side here in the USA..should be in the same place for you too?
Last edited by Rusty Spokes; 11-19-2016 at 08:55 AM.
11-19-2016, 09:08 PM
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I tried to take pictures turned out bad
Attached are some pictures that quite frankly are rubbish. Access is a problem, I thought that I would get out my thinner mobile camera than my standard camera but results are dismal. The diagram I did in ms paint is the best representation of the relays position and numbers on the relays. Sorry.
The first blurry pic is of the 60 amp fuse with to the left of it a 363 relay and in the second pic is a 332 relay next to it. In the third with the 363 removed you can see another row of relays, next to the fuse is the 217 (rattly) for the ?fuel pump?, and a 213 next to it.
The fourth pic shows at the bottom a wire connector type block of wires with above it and next to a 332 relay is pictured a 297 relay and left of this a 201.
The last pic has the 332 relay removed to see a 203 relay and next to it was a 204 relay which in this pic has been swapped out for another similar un-numbered relay.
Hopes this helps you help me, I don't think I have done so well helping you though.
The first blurry pic is of the 60 amp fuse with to the left of it a 363 relay and in the second pic is a 332 relay next to it. In the third with the 363 removed you can see another row of relays, next to the fuse is the 217 (rattly) for the ?fuel pump?, and a 213 next to it.
The fourth pic shows at the bottom a wire connector type block of wires with above it and next to a 332 relay is pictured a 297 relay and left of this a 201.
The last pic has the 332 relay removed to see a 203 relay and next to it was a 204 relay which in this pic has been swapped out for another similar un-numbered relay.
Hopes this helps you help me, I don't think I have done so well helping you though.
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11-22-2016, 07:27 AM
#8
Did some research and I think these are the relay numbers and functions:
204= multi use relay..could be for the horn
201= could be for the starter
203= fuel pump
213= cooling fan
217=? cooling fan? hi speed?
297= gear shift lock
332= A/C compressor clutch
393= exterior lights
looks like 213/217 relays should be your suspect..jump them and see.
204= multi use relay..could be for the horn
201= could be for the starter
203= fuel pump
213= cooling fan
217=? cooling fan? hi speed?
297= gear shift lock
332= A/C compressor clutch
393= exterior lights
looks like 213/217 relays should be your suspect..jump them and see.
11-23-2016, 01:21 AM
#9
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thanks Rusty spokes
Again thankyou Rusty you are an endless supply of excellent information, you have given me now hopefully enough information to fix this with..
Dan.
Dan.
