EGainer

9 and 3 is where I sit. I do wonder why the steering wheel is thicker at 10 and 2, to support hands though.

I will say this is the first car I've had where I've been able to drive with no hands on the highway, only touching the steering wheel every few seconds to help it stay in line. Active lane assist is great

aj6

Our study's data demonstrated to a high degree of significance that the 10 & 2 position is the optimal standard placement for the diversity of control inputs required during daily driving. The causal factor in this determination is that 9 & 3 positioning provides less initial rotational force during application of a turning command. This is due to body physiology not being able to provide as much of a purely tangential force vector to a wheel held at 9 & 3 as it can when hands are placed at 10 & 2.

With 10 & 2 positioning you are able to recruit more muscle groups for the application of turning force, yielding quicker, more precise control inputs.

Yes there are ergonomic molds for your hands on the wheel at the ( & 3 position. I'm sure you're also aware that there are ergonomic humps at the 10 & 2 position as well.

Look back and notice that I said specifically that with the steering ratios in our cars cause the optimal hand position to vary according to driving characteristics (i.e. speed and type of cornering). Higher speeds and lower aspect turns (such as track cornering) require less rotational input and in the specific case of track driving could be associated with a 9 & 3 optimal position because of the reduced need for large (> 1/2 turn) wheel inputs.


Finally, as you pointed out, one-handed wheel positioning at 12 o'clock is also suboptimal for a variety of reasons that are mostly obvious. I don't have to defend them as you claimed and I never intended to.

m3brad

Sorry, but you did say, "The bottom line is that whatever wheel position makes you feel most in control is likely the best one." So, you are defending those who have no clue, but drive that way all the time. I've witnessed it at driving schools on a regular basis.

On second thought, save your money and pass on a high performance driving school. Disagreeing with an instructor and telling him about all of your scientific data may not go over so well.

aj6

The original question was about daily driving. Not track layouts/conditions. So yes, for daily driving whatever makes you most comfortable is probably your best bet. I'm sure you don't drive with your hands clenched 9 & 3 from door to door anyhow.

That being said we've already agreed 9 & 3 works at high speeds. It is not necessarily the best for the variable tasks of daily driving. That's why it's a steering wheel and not a yoke (though that was attempted once in a production vehicle). The dynamics of driving require more than a single one-size-fits-all hand location. I drive mostly at 10 & 2, because it's comfortable and I know my reaction capability is proven to be faster and more precise at normal speeds than a 9 & 3 position. If I was pushing limits on the track at speed, 9 & 3 would be great and research supports that.

The guys in Ingolstadt/Gyor aren't your blue collar/tuner/anti-intellectual types. They know what they're doing, and they've designed our vehicles with some great options to handle variable driving conditions with ease and precision.

I'm not saying any one position is right for everything, but saying that 9 & 3 is definitively the best position is wrong.

snagitseven

This discussion reminds me of the cultural differences in the Gulliver's Travels classic where one city firmly believed that an egg should be opened from the narrow end and the other city believed from the wide end. This ultimately resulted in the two cities going to war.

While I'm in agreement that there is a good argument for the 9-3 position for steering control, especially in racing or spirited driving, some could also feel that 10-2 is almost as good in this regard and perhaps more comfortable in daily driving. (Most everyone in the know would agree that one handed driving is definitely not a good option).

Since I prefer the 10-2 position while cruising, and frequently enjoy using the shift paddles, I too found them a bit inconveniently small to use in this position (my fingers aren't overlay long). My solution was to obtain these extenders which work very nicely in either mode and have held up well with heavy use for over 18 months.

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a6-.../#post24458184

In any case, we should not go to war over this.

m3brad

Love the egg comparison, but in this case the gentleman clearly states: "So yes, for daily driving whatever makes you most comfortable is probably your best bet."

He is clearly giving a pass to those who, thru lack of instruction, muscle memory, etc. are doing it wrong yet do not know any better. I've witnessed too much of this at
high performance driving schools. The skills learned at the track, can and should be passed on to street driving. Things as simple as proper seat, arm and hand position,
smoothness with braking & acceleration, soft hands, keeping your eyes up and looking ahead . . . the list is long.

To aj6's shock and surprise, I always have my hands at "3 & 9" and in no way are they ever clenched. Remember, soft hands!

To say "we'll agree to disagree" doesn't seem to apply to this conversation.

aj6

I'm sure your tracking points are valid in terms of participating in High Performance Driving School™. Where I work there are lots of things that are strict procedure and lots of things that are considered "technique only", typically because there is no 100% perfect procedure for a specific task, or because multiple methods work well. Hand placement in regards to daily driving can be safely accomplished through many techniques, including those you demonized above. This is evidenced through the billions of "knuckleheads" who drive differently than you, yet arrive safely at their destination time after time.

OP asked what others did just to get samples, and you came in and posited that your technique was the only/most valid one. I believe most people would heartily disagree with the notion that only one way is proper, all research and High Performance Driving School™ aside.

Maybe we need to get rid of steering wheels altogether. Hand placement sure is a lot simpler in my other ride.
NMUSAF - C-17 Flight Deck View

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m3brad

Holly crap! I can't beleive you fly a C 17!! I'm very impressed and quite jealous.

When it comes to driving, I'm very **** and structured. My opinion is that anyone who drives an Audi, BMW or the like takes their driving a little more seriously than the average guy/gal and would like to elevate their skills. Even if their driving is 100% street.

Anyone who has attended a high performance driving school understands what I'm talking about when I say you will be a better "street driver" after attending a school.

dlmmail18

You must not live in LA then

In all seriousness, I love the sentiment but do disagree to a certain extent!

snagitseven

Remember that I wrote no wars over which way to open an egg. There's more than one way to skin a cat and everyone has their preference. Let's keep it civil.