Question about a Full-sized Spare
07-21-2005, 06:47 AM
#11
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 19,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a hell of a difference from slamming your brakes to having a full on accident.
Seriously dude, a stiff carpet is not going to stop a heavy mass (such as a unsecured wheel) in a accident.
If you can, you should try to download the Fifth Gear episode that featured this test.
If you are not concerned about it, then at least let your passengers know.
If you can, you should try to download the Fifth Gear episode that featured this test.
If you are not concerned about it, then at least let your passengers know.
07-21-2005, 07:23 AM
#12
I refuse to drive with anyone unbelted in the car. If nothing else, the Princess Diana
death should be a good example of what being unbelted can do.
"If a car hits a solid object at 30mph, though your seat belt holds you firmly in place, a ten kilo bag will continue travelling forward at that speed, hitting you with the force of half a ton," says Kevin Delaney, traffic and road safety manager with the RAC Foundation.....Of drivers with unbelted back-seat passengers, one in 68 was killed, compared with only one in 330 drivers with a restrained back-seat passenger. "<ul><li><a href="http://www.readersdigest.co.uk/magazine/carhazards.htm">all the gory details</a></li></ul>
"If a car hits a solid object at 30mph, though your seat belt holds you firmly in place, a ten kilo bag will continue travelling forward at that speed, hitting you with the force of half a ton," says Kevin Delaney, traffic and road safety manager with the RAC Foundation.....Of drivers with unbelted back-seat passengers, one in 68 was killed, compared with only one in 330 drivers with a restrained back-seat passenger. "<ul><li><a href="http://www.readersdigest.co.uk/magazine/carhazards.htm">all the gory details</a></li></ul>
07-21-2005, 07:48 AM
#13
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alright.. the slamming on the brakes was not meant to
equal an accident..
The point is that you would have to defy physics.. in the average accident.. There is not enough force going up to lift the tire out of the spare tire well .. The carpet is not just carpet its a board.. That would slow down any forward momentum the tire had before it got to the seat.. further slowing it down.. not to mention if you have the cargo net the car comes with.. that is going to hold down the carpet and pretty much defeat any vertical forces the tire may have if the car nose dived a little..
The 5th gear test is fine.. but its ingoring all the physics involved in what we are discussing here...
I gave the guy suggestions on how to hold the tire down..
The point is that you would have to defy physics.. in the average accident.. There is not enough force going up to lift the tire out of the spare tire well .. The carpet is not just carpet its a board.. That would slow down any forward momentum the tire had before it got to the seat.. further slowing it down.. not to mention if you have the cargo net the car comes with.. that is going to hold down the carpet and pretty much defeat any vertical forces the tire may have if the car nose dived a little..
The 5th gear test is fine.. but its ingoring all the physics involved in what we are discussing here...
I gave the guy suggestions on how to hold the tire down..
07-21-2005, 07:52 AM
#14
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 19,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no average accident. Safety should be your first priority.
The Fifth Gear test certainly did not ignore physics, it was a very good example of what could happen in the real world.
07-21-2005, 09:30 AM
#15
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No it tested one specific scenerio, it id not factor in
the forces required to lift the spare out of the tire well, it was just items in the trunk/hatch.. Which is just the forceds horizontally.. not to mention it was not covered items...
so the test done does not apply here.
so the test done does not apply here.
07-21-2005, 09:41 AM
#16
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 19,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My point is that having a item unsecured in the trunk is dangerous...
And that is what the Fifth Gear show wanted to display to the public. The only way that they could safely display this was in a crash test facility and thus their test.
If you think that you are perfectly safe then go right ahead.
We can argue all day over the Fifth Gear test and physics, but the fact remains that a heavy unsecured item can lead to fatal consequences.
You are focusing purely on horizontal movement which is a poor argument. Ever consider what would happen in the event of a rollover or another unforeseen movement ? One can never predict what type of accident could potential happen to a individual.
All that is needed to make the spare wheel safe is the part that MikeSS suggested. Not much to ask for peace of mind.
If you think that you are perfectly safe then go right ahead.
We can argue all day over the Fifth Gear test and physics, but the fact remains that a heavy unsecured item can lead to fatal consequences.
You are focusing purely on horizontal movement which is a poor argument. Ever consider what would happen in the event of a rollover or another unforeseen movement ? One can never predict what type of accident could potential happen to a individual.
All that is needed to make the spare wheel safe is the part that MikeSS suggested. Not much to ask for peace of mind.
07-21-2005, 09:48 AM
#17
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If they didnt' test a roll over and you want to make claims of
every accident is different and unpredictable then their tests are highly inconclusive...
If they did test a roll over I'd be willing to put money on the wheel no longer had teh force to break through the rear seat.. because in a roll over the forces are now NOT going in the same direction.. A 10th grader in the second week of a physics class would be able to see the difference there..
Again I full understand what you are saying.. but the tests done do not represent what we are discussing here..Because whether you like it or not the wheel is to some extent secured under that carpet..
there are a whole bunch of what ifs.. Why bother even driving a car.. Plenty of tests have shown they are fatal without having stuff in the trunk...
And this better 100% throw out any arguements about how versatile a hatchback is because according to you its not safe to fold the seats down and carry things...
If they did test a roll over I'd be willing to put money on the wheel no longer had teh force to break through the rear seat.. because in a roll over the forces are now NOT going in the same direction.. A 10th grader in the second week of a physics class would be able to see the difference there..
Again I full understand what you are saying.. but the tests done do not represent what we are discussing here..Because whether you like it or not the wheel is to some extent secured under that carpet..
there are a whole bunch of what ifs.. Why bother even driving a car.. Plenty of tests have shown they are fatal without having stuff in the trunk...
And this better 100% throw out any arguements about how versatile a hatchback is because according to you its not safe to fold the seats down and carry things...
07-21-2005, 10:04 AM
#18
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 19,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I fail to see your point. Are you conclusively telling me and this forum that it is perfectly safe
to have a spare wheel unsecured in the trunk ?
Your damn right that there are a whole bunch of "what ifs" in life. But those "what ifs" are out of your control.
When I can make my life and my passengers safer I do what I can.
"If they did test a roll over I'd be willing to put money on the wheel no longer had teh force to break through the rear seat.. because in a roll over the forces are now NOT going in the same direction.. A 10th grader in the second week of a physics class would be able to see the difference there.."
So you'd put money on a completely unpredictable roll over. The rear parcel shelf would have one hell of a job in preventing a loose item from breaking out through it. And your argument on forces, please don't fool yourself, I'm a qualified mechanical engineer and know plenty about force. There would be plenty of force in the event of a rollover to move items around at a velocity which could do sufficient damage.
"And this better 100% throw out any arguements about how versatile a hatchback is because according to you its not safe to fold the seats down and carry things..."
Sure having a hatchback is versatile, but the key argument here is to have items secured.
Now man we are both Audi lovers so lets have a breather...
Your damn right that there are a whole bunch of "what ifs" in life. But those "what ifs" are out of your control.
When I can make my life and my passengers safer I do what I can.
"If they did test a roll over I'd be willing to put money on the wheel no longer had teh force to break through the rear seat.. because in a roll over the forces are now NOT going in the same direction.. A 10th grader in the second week of a physics class would be able to see the difference there.."
So you'd put money on a completely unpredictable roll over. The rear parcel shelf would have one hell of a job in preventing a loose item from breaking out through it. And your argument on forces, please don't fool yourself, I'm a qualified mechanical engineer and know plenty about force. There would be plenty of force in the event of a rollover to move items around at a velocity which could do sufficient damage.
"And this better 100% throw out any arguements about how versatile a hatchback is because according to you its not safe to fold the seats down and carry things..."
Sure having a hatchback is versatile, but the key argument here is to have items secured.
Now man we are both Audi lovers so lets have a breather...
07-21-2005, 11:11 AM
#19
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am completely humored by the number of engineering degrees
That randomly pop up in middle of forum disucssions (whether you are or not.. I find it funny how often people feel the need to mention this)
I never said it would be perfectly safe however reason things occured the way they did in that test was because of physics.. You take an object with a certain mass traveling at a certain velocity, its got inertia.. That seat back is held in place with hardware that can hold a certain amount of pressure before breaking. That object can knock it down.. Not arguing that..
However if you want to take a test that was done based on physics then tell me you are an ME but totally ignore other forces involved that it would take to lift the tire from its position.. move the carpet/board out of the way.. then take out the back seat.. You've got alot of energy and directions of force coming out of no where.
In a roll.. yes its un predictable.. However in a roll over those forces that would get that tire to break through the back seat.. ARE now going laterally.. Every move that car makes is taking engergy away from that tire.
Again I am not saying its 100% safe.. I'm just saying that what this video showed is not a good representation of what this person would be doing if it was left unbolted becuase its not simply just an ensucured item on a trunk floor..
I never said it would be perfectly safe however reason things occured the way they did in that test was because of physics.. You take an object with a certain mass traveling at a certain velocity, its got inertia.. That seat back is held in place with hardware that can hold a certain amount of pressure before breaking. That object can knock it down.. Not arguing that..
However if you want to take a test that was done based on physics then tell me you are an ME but totally ignore other forces involved that it would take to lift the tire from its position.. move the carpet/board out of the way.. then take out the back seat.. You've got alot of energy and directions of force coming out of no where.
In a roll.. yes its un predictable.. However in a roll over those forces that would get that tire to break through the back seat.. ARE now going laterally.. Every move that car makes is taking engergy away from that tire.
Again I am not saying its 100% safe.. I'm just saying that what this video showed is not a good representation of what this person would be doing if it was left unbolted becuase its not simply just an ensucured item on a trunk floor..
07-21-2005, 11:43 AM
#20
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 19,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We are just going far to deep into this...
Please do not doubt my qualifications, it's rather easy to dismiss ones education and backround. Certainly a lot of people do pull supposed degrees out of their ***,it is the faceless internet after all, but I know too many people on this site to lie. For you to doubt my word is a low blow.
What I have got from you, is that you admit that having a unsecure wheel in the truck is not 100% safe. This is what I was bringing attention to.
Now I do accept your point that the chances of the wheel overcoming such restraint (the carpet, cardboard etc.) are pretty high. However it certainly has a greater chance of breaking out unsecured if it has a degree of movement than if it is bolted into place as as it should be. The fact that it could gain acceleration increases the probability of it breaking loose. The carpet is not a fixed object in the trunk and can easily be moved.
The Fifth Gear test was to make people aware of how items from the trunk can become dangerous in the event of a accident. Depending on the accident type the forces can vary greatly and we are in no position to prove beyond doubt. But you can sure bet on what can go wrong will go wrong in a accident.
What I have got from you, is that you admit that having a unsecure wheel in the truck is not 100% safe. This is what I was bringing attention to.
Now I do accept your point that the chances of the wheel overcoming such restraint (the carpet, cardboard etc.) are pretty high. However it certainly has a greater chance of breaking out unsecured if it has a degree of movement than if it is bolted into place as as it should be. The fact that it could gain acceleration increases the probability of it breaking loose. The carpet is not a fixed object in the trunk and can easily be moved.
The Fifth Gear test was to make people aware of how items from the trunk can become dangerous in the event of a accident. Depending on the accident type the forces can vary greatly and we are in no position to prove beyond doubt. But you can sure bet on what can go wrong will go wrong in a accident.