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New RS5 with no manual?

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Old 05-31-2014, 02:31 PM   #1
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Default New RS5 with no manual?

Im a big fan of stick shift and am disappointed in the new RS5's lack in option for a stick shift. How much would it cost to have the auto/paddle transmission swapped out for a six speed stick?
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Old 05-31-2014, 04:36 PM   #2
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Rs5 stateside never came with manual unfortunately !
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Old 05-31-2014, 05:47 PM   #3
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Or anywhere for that matter.
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Old 05-31-2014, 06:16 PM   #4
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The DSG is simply superior over a conventional manual in a car like the RS5. The last RS car with a manual transmission was the TTRS. When Quattro Gmbh introduced the TTRS with S-tronic, manual transmission sales tanked. That was the point where they decided to no longer offer RS cars with manual transmissions anywhere. I've been a long time stick shift driver and there was a time where I didn't even consider anything that didn't come with a stick. Now, I won't go back.

The important thing to know is that the S-tronic in the RS5 is track tuned and it has a true manual mode, meaning it will never upshift automatically in manual mode and even let the engine bounce off the rev limiter. It will only downshift automatically to prevent the engine from stalling. The high revving nature of the RS5 engine really calls for this kind of transmission. It takes only a split second to put the engine into its sweet spot vs. fumbling with a stick shift.

The reality is that for spirited driving and driving on the track, the DSG outshifts anybody with a manual transmission and in daily traffic you have the convenience of the fully automatic mode. It's the best of both worlds.

EDIT: I forgot to answer your question. You can't switch the DSG for a manual transmission in the RS5. The DSG is integral to the car, because it is a requirement for the 6th generation quattro system that was introduced with the RS5. At the core of this system is the new self-locking crown-gear center differential and only in the RS5 brake-based 4-wheel torque vectoring in addition to the active rear axle torque vectoring courtesy of the sport differential. Cars with manual transmissions such as the S4 and S5 are stuck with the previous generation quattro system, unless you opt for the S-tronic, but they don't get the 4-wheel torque vectoring, only the rear sport differential.
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:58 AM   #5
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There is no question about the superiority of the S-tronic.. The RS 5 and the R8 are the only models which will hold the rev limiter and not force an upshift. I too used to be one who would only drive a manual, but that was before all of these awesome tiptronics and S-tronics came along.

When the only options were slow shifting 3 or 4 speed slushboxes, yeah, a manual was the only way to go.

Now? I'd rather have a quick shifting auto or dual clutch.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:24 AM   #6
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The RS 5 and the R8 are the only models which will hold the rev limiter and not force an upshift.
4G RS6 (and the RS7) will do the same.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:47 AM   #7
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I'll be honest I didn't consider the RS 7 in this discussion because it is not a dual clutch box, but I recall that it will also hold redline in M mode... not that you need to in that car for any reason, better power is lower. =)
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:18 AM   #8
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I do not necessarily want to speak for the original poster here, but there are a few of us that while acknowledging the superiority of a DSG transmission for providing quick shifts, still prefer a true old fashioned row-yer-own manual transmission. Personally, I am at a point now that I would be willing to pay for the option of a manual if that's what it takes to get one (which at a very low take rate on cars that offer a manual, may be the only way to save them from extinction)
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:58 AM   #9
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I would never pay extra for a manual transmission at this stage for the main reason that they are now simply being pulled from the parts bin and they often need to be mated to older outdated drivetrain technology. Mfgs are no longer investing into making their manual transmissions compatible with their latest drivetrains. Audi is a good example. The 6th generation quattro system was built around the S-tronic and then later adapted to the 8-speed tip for the S8 and RS6/7. The other part that irks me is that the latest crop of manual transmissions aren't so manual anymore. They are now all auto blipping the throttle on downshifts. Might as well go with a DSG at that point. The tides have turned. Now that the R8 has the S-tronic, people who previously recommended to opt for the manual transmission are now recommending the S-tronic. The A3 sedan, a volume car designed for the US market is DSG only in the US. Audi couldn't make the numbers work to bring the 6mt over at least for now. It will keep going that way, and once we get off the internal combustion engine, the need for shifting gears will disappear altogether. Cars like the Tesla S have "two" gears. One forward and one reverse.
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Old 06-02-2014, 06:07 AM   #10
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While the DSG does provide a quicker shift, it is far from perfect. Forums are liter with threads and posts about hick ups with the system as it can be "confused" and caught in between shifts. This has happen to me several times during the past 4 years of ownership and had I not caught it quickly, the result would have been disastrous.

Had manual gearbox been available, I would have certainly be more than happy to pay extra to get it. And the lack of it is the main reason that is holding me back from ordering a RS5. DSG may be quicker around the track, but the lack of involvement ruins the pleasure of driving and makes it a much more sterile experience than the good old fashion manual.
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Old 06-02-2014, 08:12 AM   #11
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You have S-tronic in your S5? I've never had one get caught between gears, but I haven't been in one long enough perhaps?
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Old 06-02-2014, 10:50 AM   #12
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Same here, I've never had mine get caught between gears for the 16k miles I've been driving the RS5. I know early S-tronics had some issues, but they are pretty much all corrected in the current versions. The transversal S-tronic in the A3, TTS, TTRS, though, is still quite inferior.

I must disagree with the experience being sterile. Chasing the RS5 through canyons is frankly much more exciting than any of my previous mt cars. The S-tronic lets me focus on driving with both hands on the wheel and banging through the gears like there is no tomorrow. Granted daily driving can be unexciting if you leave it in fully automatic mode, but frankly I didn't buy this car to get my groceries or be stuck in traffic all the time, however, when I do have to get my groceries or are stuck in traffic it is very nice to just put the transmission in auto and engage the adaptive cruise control. One of the first things I noticed, is that I'm much less fatigue after a road trip in the RS5 than with my previous cars.
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Old 06-02-2014, 11:47 AM   #13
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I agree, in fact with the RS 5 engine being more high-rev happy, I love that the S-tronic makes it easy to keep it always singing. Add to the mix the extra gear ratio, and it is a win win to me.
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Old 06-02-2014, 11:47 AM   #14
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BTW, here's a nice video of an R8 V10 S-tronic ripping through some nice roads. Substitute the V10 scream for a V8 scream and a bit less power and you have what it feels like driving an RS5 through roads like this. If this feels sterile to you, I don't know what else to say.

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Old 06-03-2014, 01:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Hansen View Post
You have S-tronic in your S5? I've never had one get caught between gears, but I haven't been in one long enough perhaps?
Yes, I have DSG transmission in my S5. S5 Coupe is the only B8 platform based S/RS variation that had to wait until 2013 for the DSG transmission.

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Same here, I've never had mine get caught between gears for the 16k miles I've been driving the RS5. I know early S-tronics had some issues, but they are pretty much all corrected in the current versions. The transversal S-tronic in the A3, TTS, TTRS, though, is still quite inferior.

I must disagree with the experience being sterile. Chasing the RS5 through canyons is frankly much more exciting than any of my previous mt cars. The S-tronic lets me focus on driving with both hands on the wheel and banging through the gears like there is no tomorrow. Granted daily driving can be unexciting if you leave it in fully automatic mode, but frankly I didn't buy this car to get my groceries or be stuck in traffic all the time, however, when I do have to get my groceries or are stuck in traffic it is very nice to just put the transmission in auto and engage the adaptive cruise control. One of the first things I noticed, is that I'm much less fatigue after a road trip in the RS5 than with my previous cars.
Well, our opinion differs here then and from the looks of it, they differ fundamentally. My previous and current Audi are all my daily drivers, because that's what they are designed to do. I am sure that you will most likely disagree with me but I do not consider the RS5 to be a track car. It is designed to be a GT at best, but definitely not a dedicated track car. Therefore, it is important to me that my driving experience be as engaging as possible regardless if I am just going to buy groceries or carving through canyon roads.

Manual gearbox is not for everyone, just like the DSG transmission is not for everyone. While I am and will always prefer manual trans over DSG, I also understand that it is the trend of the future. It all comes down to simple economics, manufactures only have to design one transmission for each model. This will save money on both R&D and safety compliances.
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Old 06-03-2014, 04:17 PM   #16
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Well, our opinion differs here then and from the looks of it, they differ fundamentally. My previous and current Audi are all my daily drivers, because that's what they are designed to do. I am sure that you will most likely disagree with me but I do not consider the RS5 to be a track car. It is designed to be a GT at best, but definitely not a dedicated track car. Therefore, it is important to me that my driving experience be as engaging as possible regardless if I am just going to buy groceries or carving through canyon roads.

Manual gearbox is not for everyone, just like the DSG transmission is not for everyone. While I am and will always prefer manual trans over DSG, I also understand that it is the trend of the future. It all comes down to simple economics, manufactures only have to design one transmission for each model. This will save money on both R&D and safety compliances.
Actually, I do not disagree with you. I don't consider the RS5 to be a track car. It is a GT and a great one at that. That's why I bought it. It is also my daily driver, believe it or not. I bought this over an M3, because Audi IMO does a better job at balancing performance and daily driving comfort. All this is exactly why I like the DSG so much. Maybe I'm just over it, but I take no pleasure anymore in rowing my own gears when I'm just tooling around town, driving in traffic or in any other daily grunt situation. I just like to comfortably drive around and let the car do the shifting. I get my fun and engagement when I regularly go driving in the canyons. Living in Northern California means access to plenty of nice roads not far from my house. I've been driving mt cars for over 20 years. For me it's kind of a matter of been there done that.
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:41 PM   #17
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Actually, I do not disagree with you. I don't consider the RS5 to be a track car. It is a GT and a great one at that. That's why I bought it. It is also my daily driver, believe it or not. I bought this over an M3, because Audi IMO does a better job at balancing performance and daily driving comfort. All this is exactly why I like the DSG so much. Maybe I'm just over it, but I take no pleasure anymore in rowing my own gears when I'm just tooling around town, driving in traffic or in any other daily grunt situation. I just like to comfortably drive around and let the car do the shifting. I get my fun and engagement when I regularly go driving in the canyons. Living in Northern California means access to plenty of nice roads not far from my house. I've been driving mt cars for over 20 years. For me it's kind of a matter of been there done that.
My preference of manual gearbox over DSG has nothing to do with location ( Seattle and Manhattan ) or length of my driving history (~ 30 years ). I have always had manual transmission in my car until the S5 which much to my displeasure, is only available with DSG.

I do believe DSG is great for the people that only wishes to be entertained some of the times, but it is not so great for the purists that truly takes pleasure in driving all the time. For the first few months of my S5 ownership, I had it in automatic almost all the time until I finally just couldn't take it anymore. I do agree that DSG in manual mode can be almost as entertaining when driving through the country roads/interstates/tracks, but as a daily driver in city driving, it is as exciting as watching paint dry.

Audi has been my manufacture of choice for a DD for the past 14 years, and the possibility of Audi not offering manual transmission in the future S/RS lineup has lead me to seriously consider other makes. While I appreciates and much prefer the versatility of AWD, the lack of manual trans just may tilt me toward RWD car with appropriate season specific tires instead.

Again, I understand and respect Kris and your opinion on DSG, but unfortunately, I do not share them. And fortunately, I do have a weekend driver that is equipped with manual trans to give me my fix. I will probably be in the market for a new car again in a few years, I remain hopeful that Audi will still offer manual transmission in at least one of their S/RS line up.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:40 AM   #18
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I get the longing for a 6 speed purely for nostalgic/visceral reasons, but the dual clutch tranny in the RS5 is so much better than any of us could ever hope to be with a manual in our wettest of wet car dreams. After so many years in a manual, I still constantly think/fantasize about rowing through the gears manually, but actually living with one day to day today versus the amazing dual clutch in the RS5 makes less than zero sense.

And when really pushing the car, while I miss the manual gearbox, the lightning quick shift the dual clutch offers, and the associated ability to focus instead on the road, more than make up for it. I'm still getting used to my new RS5, but I'm in love with the tranny on this car.
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:44 AM   #19
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I get the longing for a 6 speed purely for nostalgic/visceral reasons, but the dual clutch tranny in the RS5 is so much better than any of us could ever hope to be with a manual in our wettest of wet car dreams. After so many years in a manual, I still constantly think/fantasize about rowing through the gears manually, but actually living with one day to day today versus the amazing dual clutch in the RS5 makes less than zero sense.

And when really pushing the car, while I miss the manual gearbox, the lightning quick shift the dual clutch offers, and the associated ability to focus instead on the road, more than make up for it. I'm still getting used to my new RS5, but I'm in love with the tranny on this car.
That pretty much sums it up. It seems that most who argue against the DSG do so based on no experience with it at all or based on having experience with it in one of the Audi S cars and often an early model. I've driven an S5 and S6 and the S-tronic does not nearly feel the same. The fact that they auto upshift a few hundred rpms before readline even in manual mode alone makes me cringe. Those versions are a nice alternative to a tiptronic, but I don't view them as a viable alternative to a 6mt. The S-tronic in the RS5 on the other hand is much more visceral, has a true manual mode and is pretty much only topped by the redesigned S-tronic in the R8.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:22 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
I get the longing for a 6 speed purely for nostalgic/visceral reasons, but the dual clutch tranny in the RS5 is so much better than any of us could ever hope to be with a manual in our wettest of wet car dreams. After so many years in a manual, I still constantly think/fantasize about rowing through the gears manually, but actually living with one day to day today versus the amazing dual clutch in the RS5 makes less than zero sense.

And when really pushing the car, while I miss the manual gearbox, the lightning quick shift the dual clutch offers, and the associated ability to focus instead on the road, more than make up for it. I'm still getting used to my new RS5, but I'm in love with the tranny on this car.
Visceral yes but no to nostalgic.

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That pretty much sums it up. It seems that most who argue against the DSG do so based on no experience with it at all or based on having experience with it in one of the Audi S cars and often an early model. I've driven an S5 and S6 and the S-tronic does not nearly feel the same. The fact that they auto upshift a few hundred rpms before readline even in manual mode alone makes me cringe. Those versions are a nice alternative to a tiptronic, but I don't view them as a viable alternative to a 6mt. The S-tronic in the RS5 on the other hand is much more visceral, has a true manual mode and is pretty much only topped by the redesigned S-tronic in the R8.
For one last time, for the folks that are happy with DSG, good for you. There are and will always be those of us that prefers manual transmission. Audi's decision to move completely away from manual transmission in their S/RS cars will deter purists such as myself away and I am sure that it is a calculated risk that they are well aware of.

Now, as for the "superior" DSG system in the RS5 you are speaking of, please link or post where you got this information from so I can bring myself up to date on the development of the VAG-DSG systems. Because other than gear ratio variations and software changes to accompany them, I am unaware of any actual mechanical differences between the S-Tronic used in the RS5 vs. all other S/RS cars in today's lineup. Thanks.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:22 AM
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