No more DSG in S and RS cars.
06-23-2016, 10:57 PM
#1
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
No more DSG in S and RS cars.
As noted in the new B9 S5, an 8 speed seems to be the future for Audi's "S" and "RS" models.
Report ? Audi dropping dual-clutch auto for its S and RS performance models
Report ? Audi dropping dual-clutch auto for its S and RS performance models
06-24-2016, 08:47 AM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
Disappointing that the RS4 is going torque converter. Although a dual sequential is probably impossible to use with an electronic compressor pumping big torque just off idle.
The B8 RS4/RS5 4.2NA V8 was, for me, the perfect match with S tronic.
Audi use S tronic as their generic descriptor. It can be the same as the DSG unit, if used in an MQB platform car. But for the MLB/MLB Evo platform being discussed, the S tronic (DL501) is different in design to the VW DSG. It is very similar to the Porsche PDK unit used in their V engined cars. The Porsche PDK is actually made for them by ZF, which is kind of ironic.
Speaking of which, it is also possible that as a consequence of the now shared engine (vee) development between Audi and Porsche, that they are using transmission choices and FI approaches to create a boundary between the brands. This engine, with two gas driven turbochargers, hits 440hp in the new Panamera S, and is using PDK.
Not that the Panamera is particularly important, they sell hardly any of them, and I believe the mini-Panamera project has been shelved. Which would have competed with the upcoming S5 Sportback. They are probably more concerned with the SUV market, where Q5 and Macan are very important models for both.
The B8 RS4/RS5 4.2NA V8 was, for me, the perfect match with S tronic.
Audi use S tronic as their generic descriptor. It can be the same as the DSG unit, if used in an MQB platform car. But for the MLB/MLB Evo platform being discussed, the S tronic (DL501) is different in design to the VW DSG. It is very similar to the Porsche PDK unit used in their V engined cars. The Porsche PDK is actually made for them by ZF, which is kind of ironic.
Speaking of which, it is also possible that as a consequence of the now shared engine (vee) development between Audi and Porsche, that they are using transmission choices and FI approaches to create a boundary between the brands. This engine, with two gas driven turbochargers, hits 440hp in the new Panamera S, and is using PDK.
Not that the Panamera is particularly important, they sell hardly any of them, and I believe the mini-Panamera project has been shelved. Which would have competed with the upcoming S5 Sportback. They are probably more concerned with the SUV market, where Q5 and Macan are very important models for both.
06-24-2016, 03:22 PM
#3
Ultimate Keyboard Warrior
Non dual clutch transmissions are greatly improving.
Camaro ZL1’s 10-Speed Auto Shifts Faster Than Porsche’s PDK
May 11, 2016
Chevy promises faster upshifts than a DCT along with a new performance standard they say will move the goalposts across the segment.
The Camaro ZL1 will be the first serial-production car to feature the jointly developed autobox–Ford will debut it in the Raptor later this year and the Mustang is expected to get it sometime next year.
“There is simply nothing like the experience offered with the new 10-speed automatic in the Camaro ZL1,” said Aaron Link, ZL1 lead development engineer. “It delivers nearly instantaneous, lightning-fast shifts that alter your perception of what an automatic transmission can offer in a high-performance vehicle – whether you’re on the street, drag strip or road course.”
In order to raise both overall performance and efficiency the automatic ZL1 features a wide 7.39 overall ratio spread– a tire destroying first gear ratio of 4.70 gives the ZL1 raucous off-the-line performance. Smaller steps between the gears keeps the supercharged LT4 in the fun and fat part of the powerband at all times, turning it into a proverbial slingshot out of the apex.
“The gear ratios are so tightly spaced that the transmission is in the right gear and the engine is at the best rpm for transitions from corners to straights,” said Link. “And with the power from the ZL1’s supercharged LT4 engine, the force you feel in your seat as you accelerate out of a turn will put a grin on your face every time.”
The 10-speed was heavily benchmarked against Porsche’s venerated PDK–the 1-2 shift is 36-percent faster, 2-3 is 27-percent quicker and 26-percent better from 3-4.
“You touch the paddle and the gear changes with immediacy,” said Link. “The shifts happen so quickly and without delay that it almost feels like an extension of your reflexes. It’s a much more involving experience for the driver that really helps improve confidence and performance on the track.”
In terms of efficiency, the 10-speed offers a numerically lower top gear than the 8-speed in those other Camaros, letting the LT4 settle into a lower rpm when running on the highway.
Chevy worked wonders in terms of packaging, the 10-speed roughly shares dimensions with the Camaro’s other 8-speed automatic. It uses four simple gearsets and six clutches: two brake clutches and four rotating clutches. That’s only one more clutch than the eight-speed, despite having two more forward gears.
The transmission will be manufactured at GM’s propulsion manufacturing facility in Romulus, Mich.
Additional highlights:
-A reduction in spin losses, thanks to only two non-applied clutches and other design features, contributes to greater fuel efficiency
-New ultra-low viscosity transmission fluid reduces friction across the full temperature operating range for greater fuel efficiency
-An internal thermal bypass allows the transmission to warm up faster to its optimal operating temperature for additional fuel efficiency
-Advanced torque converter design contributes to packaging efficiency
Camaro ZL1’s 10-Speed Auto Shifts Faster Than Porsche’s PDK
May 11, 2016
Chevy promises faster upshifts than a DCT along with a new performance standard they say will move the goalposts across the segment.
The Camaro ZL1 will be the first serial-production car to feature the jointly developed autobox–Ford will debut it in the Raptor later this year and the Mustang is expected to get it sometime next year.
“There is simply nothing like the experience offered with the new 10-speed automatic in the Camaro ZL1,” said Aaron Link, ZL1 lead development engineer. “It delivers nearly instantaneous, lightning-fast shifts that alter your perception of what an automatic transmission can offer in a high-performance vehicle – whether you’re on the street, drag strip or road course.”
In order to raise both overall performance and efficiency the automatic ZL1 features a wide 7.39 overall ratio spread– a tire destroying first gear ratio of 4.70 gives the ZL1 raucous off-the-line performance. Smaller steps between the gears keeps the supercharged LT4 in the fun and fat part of the powerband at all times, turning it into a proverbial slingshot out of the apex.
“The gear ratios are so tightly spaced that the transmission is in the right gear and the engine is at the best rpm for transitions from corners to straights,” said Link. “And with the power from the ZL1’s supercharged LT4 engine, the force you feel in your seat as you accelerate out of a turn will put a grin on your face every time.”
The 10-speed was heavily benchmarked against Porsche’s venerated PDK–the 1-2 shift is 36-percent faster, 2-3 is 27-percent quicker and 26-percent better from 3-4.
“You touch the paddle and the gear changes with immediacy,” said Link. “The shifts happen so quickly and without delay that it almost feels like an extension of your reflexes. It’s a much more involving experience for the driver that really helps improve confidence and performance on the track.”
In terms of efficiency, the 10-speed offers a numerically lower top gear than the 8-speed in those other Camaros, letting the LT4 settle into a lower rpm when running on the highway.
Chevy worked wonders in terms of packaging, the 10-speed roughly shares dimensions with the Camaro’s other 8-speed automatic. It uses four simple gearsets and six clutches: two brake clutches and four rotating clutches. That’s only one more clutch than the eight-speed, despite having two more forward gears.
The transmission will be manufactured at GM’s propulsion manufacturing facility in Romulus, Mich.
Additional highlights:
-A reduction in spin losses, thanks to only two non-applied clutches and other design features, contributes to greater fuel efficiency
-New ultra-low viscosity transmission fluid reduces friction across the full temperature operating range for greater fuel efficiency
-An internal thermal bypass allows the transmission to warm up faster to its optimal operating temperature for additional fuel efficiency
-Advanced torque converter design contributes to packaging efficiency
06-24-2016, 05:14 PM
#4
AudiWorld Super User
Have to wonder about maintenance interval on this trans.
Non dual clutch transmissions are greatly improving.
Camaro ZL1’s 10-Speed Auto Shifts Faster Than Porsche’s PDK
May 11, 2016
Chevy promises faster upshifts than a DCT along with a new performance standard they say will move the goalposts across the segment.
The Camaro ZL1 will be the first serial-production car to feature the jointly developed autobox–Ford will debut it in the Raptor later this year and the Mustang is expected to get it sometime next year.
“There is simply nothing like the experience offered with the new 10-speed automatic in the Camaro ZL1,” said Aaron Link, ZL1 lead development engineer. “It delivers nearly instantaneous, lightning-fast shifts that alter your perception of what an automatic transmission can offer in a high-performance vehicle – whether you’re on the street, drag strip or road course.”
In order to raise both overall performance and efficiency the automatic ZL1 features a wide 7.39 overall ratio spread– a tire destroying first gear ratio of 4.70 gives the ZL1 raucous off-the-line performance. Smaller steps between the gears keeps the supercharged LT4 in the fun and fat part of the powerband at all times, turning it into a proverbial slingshot out of the apex.
“The gear ratios are so tightly spaced that the transmission is in the right gear and the engine is at the best rpm for transitions from corners to straights,” said Link. “And with the power from the ZL1’s supercharged LT4 engine, the force you feel in your seat as you accelerate out of a turn will put a grin on your face every time.”
The 10-speed was heavily benchmarked against Porsche’s venerated PDK–the 1-2 shift is 36-percent faster, 2-3 is 27-percent quicker and 26-percent better from 3-4.
“You touch the paddle and the gear changes with immediacy,” said Link. “The shifts happen so quickly and without delay that it almost feels like an extension of your reflexes. It’s a much more involving experience for the driver that really helps improve confidence and performance on the track.”
In terms of efficiency, the 10-speed offers a numerically lower top gear than the 8-speed in those other Camaros, letting the LT4 settle into a lower rpm when running on the highway.
Chevy worked wonders in terms of packaging, the 10-speed roughly shares dimensions with the Camaro’s other 8-speed automatic. It uses four simple gearsets and six clutches: two brake clutches and four rotating clutches. That’s only one more clutch than the eight-speed, despite having two more forward gears.
The transmission will be manufactured at GM’s propulsion manufacturing facility in Romulus, Mich.
Additional highlights:
-A reduction in spin losses, thanks to only two non-applied clutches and other design features, contributes to greater fuel efficiency
-New ultra-low viscosity transmission fluid reduces friction across the full temperature operating range for greater fuel efficiency
-An internal thermal bypass allows the transmission to warm up faster to its optimal operating temperature for additional fuel efficiency
-Advanced torque converter design contributes to packaging efficiency
Camaro ZL1’s 10-Speed Auto Shifts Faster Than Porsche’s PDK
May 11, 2016
Chevy promises faster upshifts than a DCT along with a new performance standard they say will move the goalposts across the segment.
The Camaro ZL1 will be the first serial-production car to feature the jointly developed autobox–Ford will debut it in the Raptor later this year and the Mustang is expected to get it sometime next year.
“There is simply nothing like the experience offered with the new 10-speed automatic in the Camaro ZL1,” said Aaron Link, ZL1 lead development engineer. “It delivers nearly instantaneous, lightning-fast shifts that alter your perception of what an automatic transmission can offer in a high-performance vehicle – whether you’re on the street, drag strip or road course.”
In order to raise both overall performance and efficiency the automatic ZL1 features a wide 7.39 overall ratio spread– a tire destroying first gear ratio of 4.70 gives the ZL1 raucous off-the-line performance. Smaller steps between the gears keeps the supercharged LT4 in the fun and fat part of the powerband at all times, turning it into a proverbial slingshot out of the apex.
“The gear ratios are so tightly spaced that the transmission is in the right gear and the engine is at the best rpm for transitions from corners to straights,” said Link. “And with the power from the ZL1’s supercharged LT4 engine, the force you feel in your seat as you accelerate out of a turn will put a grin on your face every time.”
The 10-speed was heavily benchmarked against Porsche’s venerated PDK–the 1-2 shift is 36-percent faster, 2-3 is 27-percent quicker and 26-percent better from 3-4.
“You touch the paddle and the gear changes with immediacy,” said Link. “The shifts happen so quickly and without delay that it almost feels like an extension of your reflexes. It’s a much more involving experience for the driver that really helps improve confidence and performance on the track.”
In terms of efficiency, the 10-speed offers a numerically lower top gear than the 8-speed in those other Camaros, letting the LT4 settle into a lower rpm when running on the highway.
Chevy worked wonders in terms of packaging, the 10-speed roughly shares dimensions with the Camaro’s other 8-speed automatic. It uses four simple gearsets and six clutches: two brake clutches and four rotating clutches. That’s only one more clutch than the eight-speed, despite having two more forward gears.
The transmission will be manufactured at GM’s propulsion manufacturing facility in Romulus, Mich.
Additional highlights:
-A reduction in spin losses, thanks to only two non-applied clutches and other design features, contributes to greater fuel efficiency
-New ultra-low viscosity transmission fluid reduces friction across the full temperature operating range for greater fuel efficiency
-An internal thermal bypass allows the transmission to warm up faster to its optimal operating temperature for additional fuel efficiency
-Advanced torque converter design contributes to packaging efficiency
Also, automatic transmissions CAN be programmed with ZERO time between gears or even overlap...the cost of overlap is faster wearing clutches but smoother shifts; zero overlap same thing. You also get torque spikes to the drivetrain.
Years ago I installed trans reprogramming kits to several GM transmissions, including a 74 Corvette my girlfriend drove. It was a LOT snappier shifting afterwards, especially if you held the pedal to the floor or shifted manually. GM transmission vacuum modulator helped for part throttle upshifts and even downshifts.
06-25-2016, 03:39 PM
#5
AudiWorld Super User
Non dual clutch transmissions are greatly improving.
...Smaller steps between the gears keeps the supercharged LT4 in the fun and fat part of the powerband at all times, turning it into a proverbial slingshot out of the apex.
“The gear ratios are so tightly spaced that the transmission is in the right gear and the engine is at the best rpm for transitions from corners to straights,” said Link. “And with the power from the ZL1’s supercharged LT4 engine, the force you feel in your seat as you accelerate out of a turn will put a grin on your face every time.”
...
...Smaller steps between the gears keeps the supercharged LT4 in the fun and fat part of the powerband at all times, turning it into a proverbial slingshot out of the apex.
“The gear ratios are so tightly spaced that the transmission is in the right gear and the engine is at the best rpm for transitions from corners to straights,” said Link. “And with the power from the ZL1’s supercharged LT4 engine, the force you feel in your seat as you accelerate out of a turn will put a grin on your face every time.”
...
06-26-2016, 06:36 AM
#6
Ultimate Keyboard Warrior
06-26-2016, 08:22 AM
#7
AudiWorld Super User
Holy Shift! A Look inside GM?s new 10-Speed Automatic (Scroll down, the gear ratio table is towards the end)
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