Quattro's Rule !! Snow causes Traffic Havoc, its been coming down at a rapid pace this mornin
12-17-2005, 01:22 PM
#21
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You choose your summer tires and I'll go with
my fwd with four snows and we'll see.
My point is that awd is not inherently superior to fwd in slippery conditions. Indeed, you can get in way over your head far too easily in an awd car. It can be difficult to know which end of the car is lost first, which end will regain traction forst and exaclty what to do as it does so. Ina fwd car the front end washes out, you back smoothly off the gas, unwind some steering lock and then put your boot right back in.
Sure awd is fun and you get great traction off the line especially in winter, but you still have the same old four wheel brakes and two wheel steering as anyone else.
My point is that awd is not inherently superior to fwd in slippery conditions. Indeed, you can get in way over your head far too easily in an awd car. It can be difficult to know which end of the car is lost first, which end will regain traction forst and exaclty what to do as it does so. Ina fwd car the front end washes out, you back smoothly off the gas, unwind some steering lock and then put your boot right back in.
Sure awd is fun and you get great traction off the line especially in winter, but you still have the same old four wheel brakes and two wheel steering as anyone else.
12-17-2005, 02:29 PM
#22
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 13,614
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's sad how wrong you are
I drive my wife's fwd around regularly, and on equal tires there is no comparison.
I have never spun my wheels, slid wide in a corner, or gotten stuck in snow with my Audi. That happens to her fwd car all the time. Especially when cornering in poor road conditions, awd easily beats fwd.
Yes, you can get away with just fwd. But then, you can also drive rather comfortably all year long with a rwd if you have some skill and possibly traction control.
I have never spun my wheels, slid wide in a corner, or gotten stuck in snow with my Audi. That happens to her fwd car all the time. Especially when cornering in poor road conditions, awd easily beats fwd.
Yes, you can get away with just fwd. But then, you can also drive rather comfortably all year long with a rwd if you have some skill and possibly traction control.
12-17-2005, 04:44 PM
#23
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 11,547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which part of "equally equiped vehicles" didn't you understand ?
Direct comparison winter tire(AWD) to winter tire(FWD), Apples to Apples and you are left holding your wazoooooooo in the hand !!
12-17-2005, 05:26 PM
#24
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 13,967
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL, i was waiting for you to say that
I say ... we get a closed snow covered road course with twists and turns. We'll get two equally equipped vehicles though one FWD and one quattro, turn ESP off and let's see who's quicker.
Who's up for this? I know one thing for sure, FWD around a corner isn't going to be quicker than a quattro.
Who's up for this? I know one thing for sure, FWD around a corner isn't going to be quicker than a quattro.
12-18-2005, 10:34 AM
#26
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You guys crack me up, first
I can't read, (which I can of course) and am accused of saying something I haven't (and told to "do my homework and report back".
Then, I'm told I made some claim about "equally equipped cars" which I didn't. So someone out there can't read.
Finally, I just claimed that fwd with proper snow tires is good enough.
Of course awd gives you better traction for accelerating.
My point is THAT's ALL IT CAN DO.
awd is universal in competitive top level rallying primarily because you can't get the power down on low friction surfaces with two wheel drive only, whichever end of the car is driven.
However, top level racing, even in open classes, is still dominated by rwd vehicles because they are quicker on good grip surfaces, including wet ones.
Enjoy your Quattros but don't come crying to me when you stuff it into a guard rail somewhere because you don't understand why it has this one advantage and no others.
PS it is actually quite difficult to spin a fwd car. An amateur couldn't do it intentionally, and it would be very unsual for an amatuer to spin a fwd by accident. An awd car is much easier to spin on poor traction surfaces, which is one of my points actually.
Of course, if you don't want to learn anything about this topic you don't have to read my posts.
Then, I'm told I made some claim about "equally equipped cars" which I didn't. So someone out there can't read.
Finally, I just claimed that fwd with proper snow tires is good enough.
Of course awd gives you better traction for accelerating.
My point is THAT's ALL IT CAN DO.
awd is universal in competitive top level rallying primarily because you can't get the power down on low friction surfaces with two wheel drive only, whichever end of the car is driven.
However, top level racing, even in open classes, is still dominated by rwd vehicles because they are quicker on good grip surfaces, including wet ones.
Enjoy your Quattros but don't come crying to me when you stuff it into a guard rail somewhere because you don't understand why it has this one advantage and no others.
PS it is actually quite difficult to spin a fwd car. An amateur couldn't do it intentionally, and it would be very unsual for an amatuer to spin a fwd by accident. An awd car is much easier to spin on poor traction surfaces, which is one of my points actually.
Of course, if you don't want to learn anything about this topic you don't have to read my posts.
12-18-2005, 10:39 AM
#27
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who said anything about equal tires?
Your wife would actually be safer with fwd and four snow tires than with awd and four snow tires.
I just claimed that fwd with proper tires is enough to drive in Canadian winter conditions. I know that fwd is safer than awd. You can believe what you like of course.
Awd is not all its cracked up to be. It gives you better grip to get going. That's it. Betond that it depends on driver skill whether the better grip from driving four wheels rather than two turns out to be an advantage. Certainly in a skid awd is more dangerous than fwd (or rwd for that matter).
It's heavier, more expensive to build and repair, and provides very marginal performance advantages over two wheel drive.
Of course, if you've invested heavily in an awd vehicle (I have one too actually) you are likely to believe that it is inherently superior.
It's just not, no matter what you may claim.
I just claimed that fwd with proper tires is enough to drive in Canadian winter conditions. I know that fwd is safer than awd. You can believe what you like of course.
Awd is not all its cracked up to be. It gives you better grip to get going. That's it. Betond that it depends on driver skill whether the better grip from driving four wheels rather than two turns out to be an advantage. Certainly in a skid awd is more dangerous than fwd (or rwd for that matter).
It's heavier, more expensive to build and repair, and provides very marginal performance advantages over two wheel drive.
Of course, if you've invested heavily in an awd vehicle (I have one too actually) you are likely to believe that it is inherently superior.
It's just not, no matter what you may claim.
12-18-2005, 11:46 AM
#28
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 669
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my post was not directed towards you first of all secondly my A4 is FWD too
As for not being able to spin out a FWD easily? Your back wheels are likely to give out quicker then on AWD vehicle therefore amatuar driver would want to hit the brakes { they all do it} and after that there is pretty much no correcting. I prefer a RWD car but can not afford BMW right now and my A4 does fine in the winter with FWD. I was just commenting on FWD cars in general and that they are much more dangerous to an inexperienced driver then a AWD drive car would be but then again any car with any drivetrain can be sooo.... btw I am not saying I am Mr.****inAwsome when it comes to driving but I have my share of handling schools, ice racing and driving schools in general plus my dad did do some weekend stuff rally when I use to live in Germany so he thought me how to adopt to the car and its limits. Best said by " You got to learn how to drive fast before you go fast". Again my previous post wasnt directed towards you or anyone replying just a general opinion I think I am entitled to living in a democratic country =P Cheers!
12-18-2005, 02:42 PM
#29
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 11,547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK, Here we go again !!, Perhaps your reading comprehending skills are lacking and
your starting to show signs of Alzheimer's.
Here's what you stated in your original reply to my thread....
"There ain't no substitute for winter tires, it's been proved time and again that snow tires on two wheels beat awd drive every time."
Hence my comment "equally equiped vehicles" by that I mean, put 4 snows on both type of vehicles and your Fwd is "inferior"
Now, YOUR last comment
"PS it is actually quite difficult to spin a fwd car. An amateur couldn't do it intentionally, and it would be very unsual for an amatuer to spin a fwd by accident. An awd car is much easier to spin on poor traction surfaces, which is one of my points actually."
If by "spin" you mean lose control, then my friend you really don't know what your talking about!!
Put both types of vehicles through identical trajectories(curved) and the Fwd vehicle will lose adherence prior to the Quattro
Now its obvious that if you push the awd to the limit of adherence it will Spin-out(your Fwd will spin-off much sooner).
you mention that your Fwd is plenty for the region where you live, thats all fine and dandy but it by no means makes it safer than Quattro
* also please note that some manufactures state that their cars are AWD but in reality are only traction controlled meaning that, the awd only kicks in when wheel spin is detected!!(too little- too late).
Quattro's are all time all wheel drive !!
Here's what you stated in your original reply to my thread....
"There ain't no substitute for winter tires, it's been proved time and again that snow tires on two wheels beat awd drive every time."
Hence my comment "equally equiped vehicles" by that I mean, put 4 snows on both type of vehicles and your Fwd is "inferior"
Now, YOUR last comment
"PS it is actually quite difficult to spin a fwd car. An amateur couldn't do it intentionally, and it would be very unsual for an amatuer to spin a fwd by accident. An awd car is much easier to spin on poor traction surfaces, which is one of my points actually."
If by "spin" you mean lose control, then my friend you really don't know what your talking about!!
Put both types of vehicles through identical trajectories(curved) and the Fwd vehicle will lose adherence prior to the Quattro
Now its obvious that if you push the awd to the limit of adherence it will Spin-out(your Fwd will spin-off much sooner).
you mention that your Fwd is plenty for the region where you live, thats all fine and dandy but it by no means makes it safer than Quattro
* also please note that some manufactures state that their cars are AWD but in reality are only traction controlled meaning that, the awd only kicks in when wheel spin is detected!!(too little- too late).
Quattro's are all time all wheel drive !!
12-18-2005, 05:13 PM
#30
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What I didn't say
I did not say awd with snow tires.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
A Audi quattro will lose grip first at the front end when cornering, just as if it had front wheel drive. The best you get from Quattro drive is 50/50 torque split front to rear.
Because the front tires are trying to steer the car and drive the car while the rear wheels are trying to push the car straight forwards, all Audi Quattros understeer straight off the bend just as if they had fwd.
However, I don't need to have you agree with me. I know I'm right and...well...you're just mistaken.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
A Audi quattro will lose grip first at the front end when cornering, just as if it had front wheel drive. The best you get from Quattro drive is 50/50 torque split front to rear.
Because the front tires are trying to steer the car and drive the car while the rear wheels are trying to push the car straight forwards, all Audi Quattros understeer straight off the bend just as if they had fwd.
However, I don't need to have you agree with me. I know I'm right and...well...you're just mistaken.