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Advice for first timer ordering Q5 through dealer

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Old 04-04-2014, 01:23 PM   #1
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Default Advice for first timer ordering Q5 through dealer

Hello everyone! I've really enjoyed reading through this forum as I've been making my decision on my new SUV. I've had a Toyota Highlander for 12 years (195K miles) and ready for some more luxury! I've test driven a 3.0 2013 Q5 and LOVED it. I'm going to a local dealer on Monday night to test drive the TDI.

Assuming I like the TDI as much as I think I will, I'll be doing a Prestige TDI in Scuba Blue. Those don't exist on any lots from what I've seen, so I'm going to have to custom order. This will be the first time I've ever ordered a vehicle though a dealer, so I have several questions. Would greatly appreciated any feedback, thanks!

1. Using the AudiUSA website build, the cost for my Q5 comes out to $59,800. That's MSRP, right? From what I've read, I should be able to talk them down at least a percent or two from that. Tons of audi dealerships in the Bay Area, so easy enough to threaten to walk.

2. When you order it, do you fully commit to financing? Or just a deposit and then the financing is all figured out when the car is delivered?

3. Any gotchas to watch out for? Any advice for the haggling?

Thanks!

BDA
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:47 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballardthedome View Post
1. Using the AudiUSA website build, the cost for my Q5 comes out to $59,800. That's MSRP, right? From what I've read, I should be able to talk them down at least a percent or two from that. Tons of audi dealerships in the Bay Area, so easy enough to threaten to walk.
Check out KBB or Edmunds for what they deem as a fair price for your area.

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Originally Posted by ballardthedome View Post
2. When you order it, do you fully commit to financing? Or just a deposit and then the financing is all figured out when the car is delivered?
I think most dealers will want a deposit. I recently bought a car through cartelligent and the guy told me that in CA (I'm in the bay area as well) are fully refundable. I ended up ordering a car through cartelligent and didn't have to put down a deposit. Financing usually happens when the car arrives. Do some leg work on your own to find the best rate. My dealer was offering me 3.8% which was significantly higher than what I was able to get on my own (2.18%). I think PenFed is offering 1.9% right now.

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Originally Posted by ballardthedome View Post
3. Any gotchas to watch out for? Any advice for the haggling?
Knowing what other's paid in your area and what invoice price is, you'll be in a better position to haggle. Personally I hate that part of buying a car so I went with Cartelligent. I got a pretty decent price on my other car.
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:58 PM   #3
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check to see if you qualify for any discounts. i got Supplier (6% off MSRP) through my employer. though pricing/financing is usually not finalized at time of order, my salesman, for whatever reason, did notate this discount when he wrote up my order.

or, you can always join ACNA and get 6% off MSRP, but you have to be a member for 6 months as of the time of delivery to get that. your ordered car will probably arrive within 4 months. however, paying for a lifetime ACNA membership waives the 6 month wait.

edited to add: my dealership did require a small deposit. this deposit seems to vary by dealer. when i called around to the bay area dealers, i was told $1000 all the way up to 10% of MSRP for deposit.
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Old 04-04-2014, 02:39 PM   #4
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Have you think about European Delivery?
http://wiki.audiworld.com/index.php/ED_Summary
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Old 04-04-2014, 03:34 PM   #5
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I think you should be able to haggle at least 3% off MSRP no problem. Most dealers will require a deposit. I know in VA it's not refundable if you have a change of heart and back out of the deal before the car gets here. It can be anywhere between $1000 to 10% of negotiated price. I highly recommend you push for only a $1000 to $1500 deposit...just in case you have a change of heart, it won't be a huge hit to you.
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Old 04-04-2014, 06:16 PM   #6
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You should be able to get close to 6% off MSRP. Tell the dealer you want to see the invoice price and pay close to that.

Financing can be locked in at the time of order or you can do it when the car comes. depends how worried you are about the rates jumping.
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Old 04-05-2014, 04:58 AM   #7
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I two have been looking for my first Audi purchase on an SQ5. I live in the DC metro area, and I have been able to get pricing consistently at 4% across local dealers. I bought my Audi Club membership just recently so I have a while to wait if I want the full 6%, I haven't decided if the extra $1250 is worth the wait. I would think a haggle could get them to go to 5%.

I figure if I am going to wait another 4-5 months I might as we'll wait for the MY15 order sheet to come out in May.

To the poster that mentioned the employer discount, is there a database to look this up?
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Old 04-05-2014, 06:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
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I two have been looking for my first Audi purchase on an SQ5. I live in the DC metro area, and I have been able to get pricing consistently at 4% across local dealers. I bought my Audi Club membership just recently so I have a while to wait if I want the full 6%, I haven't decided if the extra $1250 is worth the wait. I would think a haggle could get them to go to 5%.

I figure if I am going to wait another 4-5 months I might as we'll wait for the MY15 order sheet to come out in May.

To the poster that mentioned the employer discount, is there a database to look this up?
Dealers are reimbursed by Audi 2% of the 6% ACNA or Supplier discount so your dealer is currently offering you the same 4% discount he would be absorbing with the programs.

There is no current list for the Audi Supplier partners that I'm aware of. You would have to check with your employer's HR dept.
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:25 AM   #9
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Check out this site:
http://www.oregonaudi.com/audi-supplier-program
I can't vouch for it's accuracy, but it's a good place to start.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:36 AM   #10
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To the poster that mentioned the employer discount, is there a database to look this up?
check with your HR dept. i had no clue i qualified for this . thankfully my salesman, while writing up my order, asked where i worked, and knew that my employer was part of the program . interestingly, the only makes that are listed on my employer's page are Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, and Audi.
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Old 04-05-2014, 01:16 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ballardthedome View Post
Hello everyone! I've really enjoyed reading through this forum as I've been making my decision on my new SUV. I've had a Toyota Highlander for 12 years (195K miles) and ready for some more luxury! I've test driven a 3.0 2013 Q5 and LOVED it. I'm going to a local dealer on Monday night to test drive the TDI.

Assuming I like the TDI as much as I think I will, I'll be doing a Prestige TDI in Scuba Blue. Those don't exist on any lots from what I've seen, so I'm going to have to custom order. This will be the first time I've ever ordered a vehicle though a dealer, so I have several questions. Would greatly appreciated any feedback, thanks!

1. Using the AudiUSA website build, the cost for my Q5 comes out to $59,800. That's MSRP, right? From what I've read, I should be able to talk them down at least a percent or two from that. Tons of audi dealerships in the Bay Area, so easy enough to threaten to walk.

2. When you order it, do you fully commit to financing? Or just a deposit and then the financing is all figured out when the car is delivered?

3. Any gotchas to watch out for? Any advice for the haggling?

Thanks!

BDA
We factory ordered my wife's 2014 Q5 TDI premium plus with MMI/Nav, phantom black pearl with chestnut brown interior, sport package, factory tow hitch Feb 14, 2014. I simply asked the sales manager at our Audi dealership (not my salesman) if he would give me 6% off the MSRP - I told him I had read ON MANY Audi forums that people were getting 6% off and I further mentioned that a lot of the people getting this discount weren't members of audi of America club or getting workplace discounts. He said he could only give me the 6% discount on a factory ordered vehicle...! Our TDI Q5 just went to the port in Emden, Germany and should be here in the states and then our driveway in 2-4 weeks! So just tell them you know people are getting 6% off MSRP on well equipped vehicles (if your ordering a prestige model it is WELL equipped) and would love to buy the vehicle from them... If you have several dealers around you just call and ask to speak to the sales manager and tell them what you want. Surely one of them will quickly jump on your deal.
We did put $2000.00 down - I have read that you should put money down as apparently some sneaky stealerships will try and renegotiate the deal once the car arrives if they can line up another buyer to pay more - putting money down enters them into a binding agreement and you can write in terms such as you will receive a full refund of deposit if blah blah blah.
Good luck!
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:01 PM   #12
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Costco, other wholesale clubs, AAA, AARP, all have auto buying referrals and while you either have to be a member or pay 415-20 for the referral, depending on the program, any one of those can be a great way to get a substantial price break. You might be able to do better, but any of those "fleet" programs is a good place to start and usually will come out near the Edmunds or KBB "best" point, without any argument.

If you don't want to go to the dealer that the program uses in your area, most other dealers will put up a short fuss and then agree to the same price anyway.

I'd expect finance rates, as other interest rates, to go up over the next two months. So if you apply now and can get a commitment now--that may lock in a lower rate for you.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballardthedome View Post
Hello everyone! I've really enjoyed reading through this forum as I've been making my decision on my new SUV. I've had a Toyota Highlander for 12 years (195K miles) and ready for some more luxury! I've test driven a 3.0 2013 Q5 and LOVED it. I'm going to a local dealer on Monday night to test drive the TDI.

Assuming I like the TDI as much as I think I will, I'll be doing a Prestige TDI in Scuba Blue. Those don't exist on any lots from what I've seen, so I'm going to have to custom order. This will be the first time I've ever ordered a vehicle though a dealer, so I have several questions. Would greatly appreciated any feedback, thanks!

1. Using the AudiUSA website build, the cost for my Q5 comes out to $59,800. That's MSRP, right? From what I've read, I should be able to talk them down at least a percent or two from that. Tons of audi dealerships in the Bay Area, so easy enough to threaten to walk.

2. When you order it, do you fully commit to financing? Or just a deposit and then the financing is all figured out when the car is delivered?

3. Any gotchas to watch out for? Any advice for the haggling?

Thanks!

BDA
I'm a new member of the forums too but have even following it for a while now when researching the Q5. I'm placing a order on the TDI tomorrow and was able to negotiate 5% off. I was using TrueCar.com to find out the best price I could get without haggling, and then tried independently to see if I could get a better price, which I did, but the difference was minor (TrueCar was about 4.3% off).

I had read on this forum as well as on the edmunds forum that most people were paying invoice, so I did what someone else suggested above and requested invoice, but I wasn't able to get there despite trying at multiple dealerships in the area. I confess I've never been a great negotiator though.

A question for the Audiforums gods: is what the dealers have told me below bs? They said their cost is 6% off which is the supplier discount. If I add up all the invoice prices from the order sheer, invoice price is some 7% off, but when I tried to negotiate to that price, they said they are charged fees that are not on the order sheet so their true invoice price is more 6% off. Is this bogus?

In regards to interest rates, does anyone have any experience in locking in interest rates even in factory orders that won't be delivered until 2-3 months later? I have a great rate right now but I imagine I can't lock it in and will have to risk any rate fluctuations between now and the delivery date. Is that not correct?

Oh and the dealer asked that I put down $1k deposit for the order which I didn't negotiate since it seems reasonable based on what others have said.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:31 AM   #14
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My long ramble on car purchases...Audi dealer invoice is correct at 7% off MSRP, except for freight whose cost is the same as retail to the dealer. A dealer usually is charged an ad fee of some kind (not 1% but more like $300-$400 or so) that is above the invoice. At the same time, the dealer is not mentioning the various factory incentives they can receive for meeting various quotas and other goals which otherwise are not attached to specific cars.

While I have no doubt it can happen, I suspect many of those that claimed they bought a car "at or below invoice" are including loyalty discounts, purchasing demos or at end of model year. Also, there's the trade-in game - one can get a price "below cost" but the dealer makes it back by undervaluing the trade in amount. The two negotiations need to be separate but claims of purchasing at or below invoice have to take the trade value into account to be real. Finally, almost every claim I've read of buying at or below invoice usually included excessive charges for "prep/handling".

In order to stay in business, like any other retailer, a car dealer has to make a profit after expenses - they can't realistically sell cars at or below cost for long. While dealer service departments will provide the highest profit margins, sales and service are almost always a separate profit center so the sales department too, has to be profitable. How far down in price any one dealer will go depends on many factors like location and local competition, dealer inventory and allocations, popularity/scarcity of the model and perhaps the most important, timing. Last day of a month, quarter or calendar year can be a good time to get the best deal as the dealer's sales quota rebates can be on the line.

At the end of the day, there will always be someone, somewhere at some time who got a better deal. My new car buying philosophy (over too many years and new cars to count anymore) has always been, after research, you go in prepared and negotiate the best price and terms possible for a car that will meet your needs/wants. Sometimes it takes more than one dealer to get there (although dealer loyalty over the years can make this much easier). Once done, put any stress or worry of purchasing behind you and enjoy your new car. And then, develop the best relationship you can with the service department. You'll be spending a lot more time with them than you ever did at the front of the store.
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:44 AM   #15
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In 2000, when I get Maxima at $250 over invoice price - I ask financial director how you able stay in business with price like this. He show me his computer screen- customer before me pay for Pathfander $7000 over invoice. The make smart move sell 2 cars that day, instead of one.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:09 AM   #16
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Much of the advertising you see on TV is bought by a "dealer group" and in order to pay for that, the group charges each of its members (who are the local dealers) a fee. That's a real expense and it is allocated per vehicle, so when you see a "dealer group fee" or something similar, that's a cost which is not from Audi, not on the invoice, but part of the actual cost of the vehicle to the dealer.

You also won't see the finance fee. Usually a dealer starts paying a finance fee for every vehicle in their inventory, as soon as the car comes off the trailer and the wheels hit the ground. They may pay it to Audi, may pay it to a bank, in any case the car costs them money every day it is on the lot which is part of the reason for "sell from stock" and "are you ready to buy it today?" no matter what the deal is for any make or model or dealership.

And, at least from Detroit, there used to be something else called a "holdback fee". If the dealer paid Detroit $10,000 for a car, the maker might "hold back" $300 of that, which was returned to the dealer as a credit to make sure they could buy new inventory--but only for new inventory when the new model year rolled around.

You wouldn't see the holdback on an invoice. I have no idea if Audi uses that kind of program, but any kind of special program or incentive may not be on the invoice.

How all that figures into the selling price? Good luck. Try to figure out how you allocate interest charges to each car, since that would mean any car that hasn't sold immediately, becomes more expensive every day that it is on the lot, giving customers less incentive to buy from stock. Unless of course...you don't allocate that expense to the vehicle causing it. Either way, someone has to pay.

Invoice? Just gives you a starting point for comparisons.
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Old 04-06-2014, 03:16 PM   #17
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Much of the advertising you see on TV is bought by a "dealer group" and in order to pay for that, the group charges each of its members (who are the local dealers) a fee. That's a real expense and it is allocated per vehicle, so when you see a "dealer group fee" or something similar, that's a cost which is not from Audi, not on the invoice, but part of the actual cost of the vehicle to the dealer.

You also won't see the finance fee. Usually a dealer starts paying a finance fee for every vehicle in their inventory, as soon as the car comes off the trailer and the wheels hit the ground. They may pay it to Audi, may pay it to a bank, in any case the car costs them money every day it is on the lot which is part of the reason for "sell from stock" and "are you ready to buy it today?" no matter what the deal is for any make or model or dealership.

And, at least from Detroit, there used to be something else called a "holdback fee". If the dealer paid Detroit $10,000 for a car, the maker might "hold back" $300 of that, which was returned to the dealer as a credit to make sure they could buy new inventory--but only for new inventory when the new model year rolled around.

You wouldn't see the holdback on an invoice. I have no idea if Audi uses that kind of program, but any kind of special program or incentive may not be on the invoice.

How all that figures into the selling price? Good luck. Try to figure out how you allocate interest charges to each car, since that would mean any car that hasn't sold immediately, becomes more expensive every day that it is on the lot, giving customers less incentive to buy from stock. Unless of course...you don't allocate that expense to the vehicle causing it. Either way, someone has to pay.

Invoice? Just gives you a starting point for comparisons.
In California they also add "Advertising Fee" and "Vehicle Preparation Fee"
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Old 04-06-2014, 03:16 PM   #18
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FYI, Audi doesn't use hold backs.
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:15 PM   #19
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... is what the dealers have told me below bs? They said their cost is 6% off which is the supplier discount. If I add up all the invoice prices from the order sheer, invoice price is some 7% off, but when I tried to negotiate to that price, they said they are charged fees that are not on the order sheet so their true invoice price is more 6% off. Is this bogus?
Base MSRP (WITHOUT destination) minus 7% = invoice, but destination charge changes the math a bit since it is not discounted on dealer invoice.

Lets take a look at a base Q5 Premium 2.0T an example:
  • Invoice: $34,690
  • Invoice with $895 destination: $35,585
  • MSRP: $37,300
  • MSRP with $895 destination: $38,195

- If you discount 7% of MSRP with destination and options, you are actually below invoice...

- If you discount 6% off MSRP with destination (supplier and Audi club discount), you are slightly above invoice (+$318).
Most regions are also charged "advertising fees" on their invoices, so your dealer is correct... full bottom line sticker minus 6% is pretty close to actual invoice on a lightly optioned, fairly base vehicle.

On my new 2014 Q5 (premium, lava paint, HID, heated seats), I paid:

$39,895 - Full sticker with Destination:
($2,394) - Audi club 6% discount
($1,000) - Audi loyalty discount:
$495 - Dealer "delivery and handling" (local dealer markup ,hard to avoid in my area):
--------
$36,996 - Total price, excluding tax:
Nice price with zero hassle or haggle... Only problem is there weren't any vehicles even close to what I was looking for in inventory or transit anywhere nearby, so I had to order. Should be here in another week or so...

The dealer will make that $495 d&h fee, +/- the very slight difference between my discount price and their actual invoice, plus an additional 2% of MSRP reimbursement from Audi for the club purchase, so about $1,300. The $1,000 loyalty credit comes right from Audi and bypasses the dealer.

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Old 04-08-2014, 06:15 AM   #20
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FYI, Audi doesn't use hold backs.
My dealer claims they do.
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:15 AM
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