LED DRL/Turn Signals
10-20-2014, 02:10 AM
#11
AudiWorld Senior Member
There is no law (in the US) mandating the way these lights are set up. DRL's are not mandated at all. So while some of us might think "Well, running lights should stay ON not be blinked" Audi-US apparently thinks otherwise and they refuse to change the program. Which can easily be changed if you have the VAGCOM. Specific codes are posted in various forum threads.
And I agree with you, the DRLs should NOT BLINK with the turn signals. Maybe Audi has some secret internal test data that show they are more visible this way. Or maybe...it's just that Audi Attitude.
And I agree with you, the DRLs should NOT BLINK with the turn signals. Maybe Audi has some secret internal test data that show they are more visible this way. Or maybe...it's just that Audi Attitude.
10-20-2014, 07:46 AM
#13
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Actually it is law in the US to dim or turn off DRL's if they are close or next to the turn signals. Other brands do this too. I had a 99 GMC that turned both DRL's off. This feature does make your vehicle's turn signal much more visible to oncoming traffic. For me, I prefer safer versus looks cooler. Other drivers pay almost no attention as it is.
I don't know of relevant laws, but everyone seems to be doing it so it's not just a matter of Audi alone deciding to. And I agree that it makes the turn signal much more visible since it's the only light on that side. With how oblivious everyone is around here, I'll take any shred of advantage I can get in someone actually noticing things.
Wish we got the RoW separate, amber turn signals as well since red takes longer to process whereas amber has to be turn signals. At some point I expect I'll replace my tails with the Euro-spec ones, just haven't yet.
10-20-2014, 07:49 AM
#14
AudiWorld Senior Member
Yep, I've noticed that it seems like all LED DRLs seem to turn off when signaling. Wasn't this way with halogens, but it's less problematic turning LEDs on and off than standard bulbs so that could be part of it.
I don't know of relevant laws, but everyone seems to be doing it so it's not just a matter of Audi alone deciding to. And I agree that it makes the turn signal much more visible since it's the only light on that side. With how oblivious everyone is around here, I'll take any shred of advantage I can get in someone actually noticing things.
Wish we got the RoW separate, amber turn signals as well since red takes longer to process whereas amber has to be turn signals. At some point I expect I'll replace my tails with the Euro-spec ones, just haven't yet.
I don't know of relevant laws, but everyone seems to be doing it so it's not just a matter of Audi alone deciding to. And I agree that it makes the turn signal much more visible since it's the only light on that side. With how oblivious everyone is around here, I'll take any shred of advantage I can get in someone actually noticing things.
Wish we got the RoW separate, amber turn signals as well since red takes longer to process whereas amber has to be turn signals. At some point I expect I'll replace my tails with the Euro-spec ones, just haven't yet.
10-20-2014, 09:13 AM
#15
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Actually it is law in the US to dim or turn off DRL's if they are close or next to the turn signals. Other brands do this too. I had a 99 GMC that turned both DRL's off. This feature does make your vehicle's turn signal much more visible to oncoming traffic. For me, I prefer safer versus looks cooler. Other drivers pay almost no attention as it is.
10-20-2014, 11:28 AM
#16
AudiWorld Super User
rdA4WtQ5-
"Actually it is law in the US to dim or turn off DRL's if they are close or next to the turn signals"
Oh really? I'd be very interested if you could cite a source for that. Last time I checked the DOT regulations there was no such thing mentioned, and the only laws about DRLs were individual state laws. In my case the state neither requires nor regulates them.
So if you can cite anything in the CFR or other federal statutes, I would really love to know of it.
"Actually it is law in the US to dim or turn off DRL's if they are close or next to the turn signals"
Oh really? I'd be very interested if you could cite a source for that. Last time I checked the DOT regulations there was no such thing mentioned, and the only laws about DRLs were individual state laws. In my case the state neither requires nor regulates them.
So if you can cite anything in the CFR or other federal statutes, I would really love to know of it.
10-20-2014, 01:41 PM
#17
AudiWorld Senior Member
rdA4WtQ5-
"Actually it is law in the US to dim or turn off DRL's if they are close or next to the turn signals"
Oh really? I'd be very interested if you could cite a source for that. Last time I checked the DOT regulations there was no such thing mentioned, and the only laws about DRLs were individual state laws. In my case the state neither requires nor regulates them.
So if you can cite anything in the CFR or other federal statutes, I would really love to know of it.
"Actually it is law in the US to dim or turn off DRL's if they are close or next to the turn signals"
Oh really? I'd be very interested if you could cite a source for that. Last time I checked the DOT regulations there was no such thing mentioned, and the only laws about DRLs were individual state laws. In my case the state neither requires nor regulates them.
So if you can cite anything in the CFR or other federal statutes, I would really love to know of it.
The original document I think was from 1998 that gave distances from the DRL to the turn signal that required dimming or extinguishing of the DRL.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-200...sec571-108.pdf
10-20-2014, 02:34 PM
#18
AudiWorld Super User
That's an obsolete version of the CFR from 2004.
The current 2014 version
eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations
says:
"§571.108 Standard No. 108; Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment.
S1 Scope. This standard specifies requirements for original and replacement lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment."
Which means everything in that section only governs how lamps, etc. must be manufactured. It does *not* make any ruling on how a driver must or may use them. And in fact, there is no mandate that DRLs be installed or used AT ALL. They're strictly optional equipment.
It goes on to say (when you delete the non-relevant sections):
"S7.10.10.1 Spacing to turn signal lamps. Each DRL not optically combined with a turn signal lamp must be located on the vehicle so that the distance from its lighted edge to the optical center of the nearest turn signal lamp is not less than 100 mm unless,...(c) The DRL is deactivated when the turn signal or hazard warning signal lamp is activated."
OK, that tells us that manufacturers are required to separate the DRL from the turn signal, by at least 4 inches, unless the DRL is deactivated when the turn signal is in use. Note that burden is on the manufacturer, and there is no requirement that the owner or driver keep it that way. It is only required that the vehicle be manufactured that way.
That section of the CFR mandates how a vehicle must be manufactured. It can only be enforced against the manufacturer. Since there are no federal regulations (and in most or perhaps all cases, no state regulations either) covering how a driver may install or operate DRLs...
None of that prevents me, as a driver, from changing the operation of my DRLs.
As to whether it gets further complicated by other factors, like whether having all those lights in one assembly makes them integral or not....that's also irrelevant to me as a driver.
Incidentally, no local, state, county or municipal law enforcement officers can generally enforce the DOT and EPA regulations which affect vehicles, even if they know them. It is not their jurisdiction to enforce federal administrative codes. Yes, that's terribly odd, but that's the way it goes. You do get some places like California, where the state code requires conformation with EPA regulations--but when that's enforced, it is the state code that is being enforced.
Here? My state doesn't believe DRLs exist. Or that they enhance safety. Despite the fact that every professional trucker used to say "My lights are on for safety" all day every day.
The current 2014 version
eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations
says:
"§571.108 Standard No. 108; Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment.
S1 Scope. This standard specifies requirements for original and replacement lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment."
Which means everything in that section only governs how lamps, etc. must be manufactured. It does *not* make any ruling on how a driver must or may use them. And in fact, there is no mandate that DRLs be installed or used AT ALL. They're strictly optional equipment.
It goes on to say (when you delete the non-relevant sections):
"S7.10.10.1 Spacing to turn signal lamps. Each DRL not optically combined with a turn signal lamp must be located on the vehicle so that the distance from its lighted edge to the optical center of the nearest turn signal lamp is not less than 100 mm unless,...(c) The DRL is deactivated when the turn signal or hazard warning signal lamp is activated."
OK, that tells us that manufacturers are required to separate the DRL from the turn signal, by at least 4 inches, unless the DRL is deactivated when the turn signal is in use. Note that burden is on the manufacturer, and there is no requirement that the owner or driver keep it that way. It is only required that the vehicle be manufactured that way.
That section of the CFR mandates how a vehicle must be manufactured. It can only be enforced against the manufacturer. Since there are no federal regulations (and in most or perhaps all cases, no state regulations either) covering how a driver may install or operate DRLs...
None of that prevents me, as a driver, from changing the operation of my DRLs.
As to whether it gets further complicated by other factors, like whether having all those lights in one assembly makes them integral or not....that's also irrelevant to me as a driver.
Incidentally, no local, state, county or municipal law enforcement officers can generally enforce the DOT and EPA regulations which affect vehicles, even if they know them. It is not their jurisdiction to enforce federal administrative codes. Yes, that's terribly odd, but that's the way it goes. You do get some places like California, where the state code requires conformation with EPA regulations--but when that's enforced, it is the state code that is being enforced.
Here? My state doesn't believe DRLs exist. Or that they enhance safety. Despite the fact that every professional trucker used to say "My lights are on for safety" all day every day.
10-20-2014, 03:11 PM
#19
AudiWorld Senior Member
And your point is?
10-21-2014, 06:54 AM
#20
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That it's the law but people can break it since they aren't physically prevented from doing so, sounds like. 
But nobody needs to get into a fight over it; looks like it's in the federal code so it is indeed a law. We're a bit of an anomaly in that we can alter the software to not do that (configuration allowing different behavior in different jurisdictions), but just because it's possible to do doesn't mean it's legal. And just because it's not legal doesn't mean you'll ever get in trouble over it (I see all sorts of illegal configurations here including blatantly-obvious violations and nobody really cares, but if you're going 1mph over the limit while maintaining safe following distance then watch out!).
But nobody needs to get into a fight over it; looks like it's in the federal code so it is indeed a law. We're a bit of an anomaly in that we can alter the software to not do that (configuration allowing different behavior in different jurisdictions), but just because it's possible to do doesn't mean it's legal. And just because it's not legal doesn't mean you'll ever get in trouble over it (I see all sorts of illegal configurations here including blatantly-obvious violations and nobody really cares, but if you're going 1mph over the limit while maintaining safe following distance then watch out!).