What do you guys think about warming up your car
02-09-2015, 04:56 AM
#11
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I wait for the car to come down off of fast idle, and then begin driving. This can be almost immediately in warmer weather or up to 30-45 seconds in below 0F outside temps.
As noted, I keep the RPM's relatively low until the engine is fully warmed up. This is not when the coolant temp. gauge reads normal/warm however. It takes the engine oil a few minutes longer to get up to temperature than the coolant. Porsche actually has a oil temperature gauge in addition to the coolant temperature gauge.
As noted, I keep the RPM's relatively low until the engine is fully warmed up. This is not when the coolant temp. gauge reads normal/warm however. It takes the engine oil a few minutes longer to get up to temperature than the coolant. Porsche actually has a oil temperature gauge in addition to the coolant temperature gauge.
Even though the article spends most of the time saying you don't need to wait for the car to warm up, it finally gets to the point at the end; they then state: "Most manufacturers recommend driving off gently after about 30 seconds."
My definition of "warming up the car" is waiting for it to come to a comfortable idle, not waiting until my bum is nice and toasty in the seat.
02-09-2015, 01:48 PM
#14
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Article rambles on about carburetors and butterflys LOL
While the important thing to focus on is lubrication. At startup there is little oil if any in the upper engine. If it is cold outside, the oil flows to these areas even slower. After 30 seconds there is barely any lubrication, even 2500-3000 RPMs under load will cause additional wear.
Some confusion comes from the term "warming up". Some assume it means letting the engine reach full operating temperature which is not needed for normal driving. But you should still let the oil circulate before putting a load on it.
Depending on temperature I let the car idle for 2-3 minutes, if it's below freezing than maybe up to 5 minutes just to be sure the oil has thinned out enough to provide good coverage and flowing properly.
That is part of the "eco" setting, and has nothing to do with reality, and everything to do with hippies and "wasting" gas. Meanwhile, long term engine damage means early graves for cars and engines which is actually more harmfull than a couple minutes of low RPM idling.
02-19-2015, 02:24 PM
#16
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Article rambles on about carburetors and butterflys LOL
While the important thing to focus on is lubrication. At startup there is little oil if any in the upper engine. If it is cold outside, the oil flows to these areas even slower. After 30 seconds there is barely any lubrication, even 2500-3000 RPMs under load will cause additional wear.
Some confusion comes from the term "warming up". Some assume it means letting the engine reach full operating temperature which is not needed for normal driving. But you should still let the oil circulate before putting a load on it.
Depending on temperature I let the car idle for 2-3 minutes, if it's below freezing than maybe up to 5 minutes just to be sure the oil has thinned out enough to provide good coverage and flowing properly.
While the important thing to focus on is lubrication. At startup there is little oil if any in the upper engine. If it is cold outside, the oil flows to these areas even slower. After 30 seconds there is barely any lubrication, even 2500-3000 RPMs under load will cause additional wear.
Some confusion comes from the term "warming up". Some assume it means letting the engine reach full operating temperature which is not needed for normal driving. But you should still let the oil circulate before putting a load on it.
Depending on temperature I let the car idle for 2-3 minutes, if it's below freezing than maybe up to 5 minutes just to be sure the oil has thinned out enough to provide good coverage and flowing properly.
Article rambles on about carburetors and butterflys LOL
While the important thing to focus on is lubrication. At startup there is little oil if any in the upper engine. If it is cold outside, the oil flows to these areas even slower. After 30 seconds there is barely any lubrication, even 2500-3000 RPMs under load will cause additional wear.
Some confusion comes from the term "warming up". Some assume it means letting the engine reach full operating temperature which is not needed for normal driving. But you should still let the oil circulate before putting a load on it.
Depending on temperature I let the car idle for 2-3 minutes, if it's below freezing than maybe up to 5 minutes just to be sure the oil has thinned out enough to provide good coverage and flowing properly.
While the important thing to focus on is lubrication. At startup there is little oil if any in the upper engine. If it is cold outside, the oil flows to these areas even slower. After 30 seconds there is barely any lubrication, even 2500-3000 RPMs under load will cause additional wear.
Some confusion comes from the term "warming up". Some assume it means letting the engine reach full operating temperature which is not needed for normal driving. But you should still let the oil circulate before putting a load on it.
Depending on temperature I let the car idle for 2-3 minutes, if it's below freezing than maybe up to 5 minutes just to be sure the oil has thinned out enough to provide good coverage and flowing properly.
What I learned in auto mechanic school is its better to drive the car immediately unless the manufacturer recommends otherwise. Audi also agrees that you should drive it immediately, but I'll admit, they probably care more about emissions.
The real main concern is not viscosity of oil, unless you do see temps below -30. Let me explain why you want to drive and warm the car up quickly. Many moving engine internals operate at extremely tight tolerances. As many people know, metal expands when heated, so engines have to be built with this in mind and thus the size of these parts is measured at operating temps. When you have a cold engine, these parts are now a little bit smaller and have a bit more play which leads to excessive wear. If you could keep your engine at 0° for its life, it would not last long at all due to this, even if you put in oil specific for extreme temps.
This is why I will never use a remote starter and I drive the car immediately in the winter. I keep my RPMs below 3k until my oil temp is above 180°, indicating the entire engine (not just the coolent channels) is up to temp.
I also have the economy screen in my 2012.
Last edited by Joe85STi; 02-19-2015 at 02:28 PM.
02-20-2015, 02:54 PM
#17
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This is absolutely 100% not true. If you are using 5W-40 or 0W-40 oil, as recommended by audi that is the VW500 whatever recommended quality, you will never have oil flow problems due to thick, cold oil. You would need to see temps below -30 to start seeing that.
What I learned in auto mechanic school is its better to drive the car immediately unless the manufacturer recommends otherwise. Audi also agrees that you should drive it immediately, but I'll admit, they probably care more about emissions.
The real main concern is not viscosity of oil, unless you do see temps below -30. Let me explain why you want to drive and warm the car up quickly. Many moving engine internals operate at extremely tight tolerances. As many people know, metal expands when heated, so engines have to be built with this in mind and thus the size of these parts is measured at operating temps. When you have a cold engine, these parts are now a little bit smaller and have a bit more play which leads to excessive wear. If you could keep your engine at 0° for its life, it would not last long at all due to this, even if you put in oil specific for extreme temps.
What I learned in auto mechanic school is its better to drive the car immediately unless the manufacturer recommends otherwise. Audi also agrees that you should drive it immediately, but I'll admit, they probably care more about emissions.
The real main concern is not viscosity of oil, unless you do see temps below -30. Let me explain why you want to drive and warm the car up quickly. Many moving engine internals operate at extremely tight tolerances. As many people know, metal expands when heated, so engines have to be built with this in mind and thus the size of these parts is measured at operating temps. When you have a cold engine, these parts are now a little bit smaller and have a bit more play which leads to excessive wear. If you could keep your engine at 0° for its life, it would not last long at all due to this, even if you put in oil specific for extreme temps.
You state that when cold the engine's are "loose" due to precise engineering....and yet F1 cars who's engineering is VERY precise have to be pre-warmed and circulated because cold, they are actually SEIZED solid. When warm and running, they move properly. Now, granted, there are vast design differences in the two engines...however, engineering can not defy physics and if the metal in my engine is small when cold and big when hot, I see no way the metal in the F1 engines can be big when cold and small when hot.
Also, while oil such as 5-40, and 0-30, 0-20, ect, regardless of specification will flow when cold, it will not flow the same as when warm. I encourage you to take a bottle of whatever spec 0-30 you want and put it in your freezer, then warm another bottle in a pan of water on the stove. Pour them both out and I promise you they will not flow at the same speed.
Audi and many manufacturer's state to drive immediately. They certainly care more about MPG, since any wear on an engine from startup abuse will come off the end of that engine's life, and be well out of warranty or PR issues.
I am always open to new technology and new ways of doing things, but I prefer to live in logic and reality. No one has EVER been able to explain why waiting for proper lubrication is now a BAD thing. In fact, MOST comments and "experts" who weigh in on this subject push the idea that warm up is no longer needed due to fuel injection, and go on about butterfly's in carburetors, and mechanical fuel pumps, ect. Not once ever even MENTIONING lubrication which is in fact the real reason to let a car idle a little before putting a load and pressure on the internals.
Again, that's my 2 cents, and you are welcome to treat your own vehicles anyway you choose based on what you believe. I will continue to wait for proper lubrication and protection of my engines.
02-20-2015, 07:22 PM
#19
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Assuming warming up extends engine life...how many miles are we talking about?
We traded in a 2004 Subaru turbo with 92k miles to get our S4. Never had a problem. Used Mobil One every year or 10k miles whichever comes first. Our Porsche is the same according to the manual as is the S4. Yearly or 10k miles except for thr first 5k.
Really doubt if F1 comparison is apt. Life expectancy of the engine is a few races and a few thousand miles at best! Please note current F1 engines operate at 14k rpm and idle where Audis operate. Different cat.
Best
We traded in a 2004 Subaru turbo with 92k miles to get our S4. Never had a problem. Used Mobil One every year or 10k miles whichever comes first. Our Porsche is the same according to the manual as is the S4. Yearly or 10k miles except for thr first 5k.
Really doubt if F1 comparison is apt. Life expectancy of the engine is a few races and a few thousand miles at best! Please note current F1 engines operate at 14k rpm and idle where Audis operate. Different cat.
Best
02-21-2015, 04:35 AM
#20
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A few comments, especially when using terms like "absolutely" and 100%.
You state that when cold the engine's are "loose" due to precise engineering....and yet F1 cars who's engineering is VERY precise have to be pre-warmed and circulated because cold, they are actually SEIZED solid. When warm and running, they move properly. Now, granted, there are vast design differences in the two engines...however, engineering can not defy physics and if the metal in my engine is small when cold and big when hot, I see no way the metal in the F1 engines can be big when cold and small when hot.
Also, while oil such as 5-40, and 0-30, 0-20, ect, regardless of specification will flow when cold, it will not flow the same as when warm. I encourage you to take a bottle of whatever spec 0-30 you want and put it in your freezer, then warm another bottle in a pan of water on the stove. Pour them both out and I promise you they will not flow at the same speed.
Audi and many manufacturer's state to drive immediately. They certainly care more about MPG, since any wear on an engine from startup abuse will come off the end of that engine's life, and be well out of warranty or PR issues.
I am always open to new technology and new ways of doing things, but I prefer to live in logic and reality. No one has EVER been able to explain why waiting for proper lubrication is now a BAD thing. In fact, MOST comments and "experts" who weigh in on this subject push the idea that warm up is no longer needed due to fuel injection, and go on about butterfly's in carburetors, and mechanical fuel pumps, ect. Not once ever even MENTIONING lubrication which is in fact the real reason to let a car idle a little before putting a load and pressure on the internals.
Again, that's my 2 cents, and you are welcome to treat your own vehicles anyway you choose based on what you believe. I will continue to wait for proper lubrication and protection of my engines.
You state that when cold the engine's are "loose" due to precise engineering....and yet F1 cars who's engineering is VERY precise have to be pre-warmed and circulated because cold, they are actually SEIZED solid. When warm and running, they move properly. Now, granted, there are vast design differences in the two engines...however, engineering can not defy physics and if the metal in my engine is small when cold and big when hot, I see no way the metal in the F1 engines can be big when cold and small when hot.
Also, while oil such as 5-40, and 0-30, 0-20, ect, regardless of specification will flow when cold, it will not flow the same as when warm. I encourage you to take a bottle of whatever spec 0-30 you want and put it in your freezer, then warm another bottle in a pan of water on the stove. Pour them both out and I promise you they will not flow at the same speed.
Audi and many manufacturer's state to drive immediately. They certainly care more about MPG, since any wear on an engine from startup abuse will come off the end of that engine's life, and be well out of warranty or PR issues.
I am always open to new technology and new ways of doing things, but I prefer to live in logic and reality. No one has EVER been able to explain why waiting for proper lubrication is now a BAD thing. In fact, MOST comments and "experts" who weigh in on this subject push the idea that warm up is no longer needed due to fuel injection, and go on about butterfly's in carburetors, and mechanical fuel pumps, ect. Not once ever even MENTIONING lubrication which is in fact the real reason to let a car idle a little before putting a load and pressure on the internals.
Again, that's my 2 cents, and you are welcome to treat your own vehicles anyway you choose based on what you believe. I will continue to wait for proper lubrication and protection of my engines.
2. I recommend you take two bottles of oil, heat one to 350° and the other to 200°, I bet the one at 350° will flow much quicker, so by your logic must be safer to use, right? No, your engine will not last very long. Quicker flow isn't always better. There is a temperature range that oil is designed to operate at, if you are inside that range, there isn't going to be any flow problems. Being at 0°F is well inside that range and therefor will have zero, ZERO, flow issues. The only thing you'll encounter with the slightly thicker oil at those cold temps is a negligible loss of power do to the extra energy it takes to push parts through it, mostly the crank shaft splashing through the tub of oil.
Since oil flow isn't a problem at all, the only issue to be concerned with is the actual shape and size of these internal parts that are trying to rub together. I'd prefer they get up to operating temp as soon as possible so they fit well together.
Last edited by Joe85STi; 02-21-2015 at 06:04 PM.