Glisse

The B9 S4 is lighter than all of them.

The XE does not have AWD, and is very small in the rear. The XF and the XE are on the same platform, and the interior design and materials are very (too) similar. My fault for bringing up Jaguar, which is OT. Just taking the opportunity to quiz Hinckley as I recalled he was looking at Jags. Good steering feel is on my check list.

And like others, I cross shop platforms. My Audi short list is S6 sedan, S4 Avant, and RS3 Sportback. Rather diverse!

MB C43 is the S competitor, not C63. It was developed specifically by MB to tackle the S4. It drives more like a B8 S4 than anything else out there, but feels cheap and unrefined compared to B9 A4 (I have driven 3.0TDI quattro S line with adaptive sport suspension: very refined, quite fast, bit boring).

If MB ever put AWD on the C63 (Tobias Moers has said they will not), then it is an RS4 competitor. But will be a fat pig in comparison. I would buy an RS4 tomorrow if they were releasing it within 4 months - would not even wait to drive it first. But they are not.

Regarding the new Audi 3.0 litre engine, that forms the basis of the B9 S4 and RS4 (and RS5, and base R8), it has made an appearance in new Porsche Panamera prototype testing. It is the engine being used in the new Panamera 4S. The journalist, Georg Kacher who is pretty decent, preferred this model to the others. Which funnily enough included a 4.0TT diesel V8, and a 4.0 TT gasoline V8. Given Audi are doing most of the heavy lifting on Porsche's new Vee engines, you would hope Porsche could reciprocate on steering and suspension!

2017 Porsche Panamera: First Look

hinckley

The Jag XE is absolutely the more natural competitor to the A/S4, and it is available in North America with AWD. But I think that for many of us, its lack of back seat room makes it a non-starter. The XF is bigger and a more natural competitor to the A/S6. But it can compete on price with the S4 in the States.

Since many of us are talking about alternatives to waiting for the new S4, can anyone compare the S4 and the S6? There are some well priced used MY16 models available and I'm curious about the car's handling compared to the S4. I would only buy a car with the sport diff. On the S4, that diff made the car drive like a go-kart (imo), but the S6 is soooo much heavier. Could it handle almost as good as the S4?

letS4nicate

Before my S6 I had an e92 M3. The S6 is very comfortable and refined however it lacks the feeling of being truly connected to the car and the road. My biggest gripe as I said is the weight which can really be felt when pushing the car in twisties. I miss the size and feel of the M3 but AWD is now a must. When my dealer has provided a B8 S4 as a loaner I realize that I prefer the size and responsiveness of it over the S6. It is not as comfortable and not quite as fast in a straight line but everything about it feels quicker. I'm sure the B9 will be even better. An RS4 would be perfect for me but need something before that comes out. The Jaguar XE SVR sounds great too but probably also will be a long wait.

hinckley

Thanks for that feedback. I'm in the same place as you are. AWD is a must, but I keep thinking about the M3 as well. This is going to be a compromise decision for me one way or the other (and I don't compromise well), so the thought of going used and less expensive is appealing to me. But whenever I've made a mistake when buying a car, it's always about a lack of handling. I had a current gen M5 for 14 months. For me, the car was so overweight that it handled like a pig. I took a bath getting rid of it, but I just couldn't live with it. The S6 is equally heavy, but I hoped Quattro and the sport diff would help. Does your S6 have the diff?

Glisse

Didn't know the XE was coming with AWD for the V6, thought it was just with the 2 litre engines. I'd prefer a narrower car, as the width of my A7 is an issue in Europe - an S6 is actually closer to an S5 in width than it is to an A7. The XF is quite wide.

I have always like the feel and sound of V8s, and that is, for me, the attraction of the S6. But the steering feel in the C7 is poor, and I find the air suspension in the S6 a little soft.

The B9 platforms feels like it equals the refinement of the C7 platform, but with much less weight. The interior quality is closer to the C7 than it is the B8. And much better than BMW and Mercedes, let alone Jaguar. So in theory, the S4 should be excellent. My concern is there mightn't be enough excitement in it. A lot of that will depend on how the new engine "feels" and no one knows yet.

As I've said before, over the last few years, Audi have changed their model approach. Originally, the top of the "A" model range had a big engine, and luxury options you could throw in if desired. The "S" version had the highest tuned output of that engine, plus bigger brakes and modified suspension oriented to handling. They were quite "hard" cars.

quattro GmbH cranked out one RS model only, in their little corner of Neckarsulm, and usually close to the end of that platform's life.

Now the plan seems to be that the A versions no longer get a big engine option at all, you have to buy the S version to get a bigger engine. And they are softening the S versions to make them more broadly appealing. quattro GmbH, which is now Audi Sport, is supposed to be providing an RS model across every platform, so that's what you get if you want a performance Audi. But they are too slow in bringing them out, and too quick in softening the S range. Frustrates me.

Like you, I would only buy an MLB Audi with sports diff. It is always the first option I tick.

I agree with letS4nicate's comments. But I do quite like having both an S5 and an A7 in the garage, because I appreciate their differences (my wife hates driving the A7, she finds it too big, and too detached). And for a longer drive, especially on highways, the C7 platform is outstanding.

JD15

I'm not so sure about the weight: Jaguar USA lists the weight of the XE 35T RWD as 3605 lb, which is less than that of the US spec B9 A4.

Glisse

I was referring to AWD models. The XE 3.0 AWD, according to the website linked by Hinckley, weighs 3880lbs.

hinckley

3880 lbs is the spec'd weight of the larger XF. Jag has not yet listed the weight of the 3.0 XE models on its US website.

hinckley

Well at the end of the day, I just couldn't do it. 30+ years of German cars was too much to get out of my system.

I spent the day yesterday looking at, driving - and ultimately buying an S6. It's a beautiful car especially with the Arras Red interior. And my local dealer really went to town on pricing. The car I purchased had an MSRP of $5k more than the fully optioned Jag XF that I had ordered, but the Audi's discounted price ended up at just $300 more than the very discounted XF price. I couldn't walk away from the car or the deal.

The Jag does everything right on paper. It handles extremely well for a car of its size, or a size smaller for that matter. The S6 is close, but it gets there by using brute power to overwhelm its considerable weight. I'd prefer the lighter weight and less power of the Jag, but life is a compromise. I'm just too nervous about the Jag's reliability (its new user interface is already full of bugs reminiscent of 1960s Jaguar electronics). So I cancelled the XF order and I'm back in my comfort zone.

I'll always have a soft spot for my S4. It's in the top three of almost 40 years of car ownership. Hope to see some of you over on the S6 board. Good luck all.

Glisse

Sounds like a good decision. I too read that the new MMI equivalent, Jaguar's IC Pro, is plagued with major problems. I sat in both the XE and XF at the Geneva show, and had a good look over the vehicles. The quality was not good, and these were show cars. I think they seem to have excellent chassis engineers, but no money for putting finished quality in the product.

After living with Audi, it sets a quality benchmark in terms of design integrity and materials quality that others struggle to reach. Over the last 6 months, I've driven BMWs, Mercedes and Porsche (Macans) trying to develop a short list for my new car. Putting aside driving characteristics, they all felt cheaper than a C7 Audi. The only car that got close was a B9 A4.

Congratulations on the new S6 - the Jaguar XF S should be a much cheaper car (US pricing gets a bit distorted on European cars). As in US $1x,xxx or so. The V8 XF/XE (SVR?), if it ever turns up, is really the competition. So getting an S6 for the same price as an XF S 3.0 seems remarkable to me. Hope you have the chance to post some picture in the S6 forum. If I get sick of waiting for the B9 S4 to turn up, I'll probably go the same way myself.