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Cautionary note about variable redline

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Old 08-03-2014, 07:16 PM   #1
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Default Cautionary note about variable redline

Note that it appears the redline moves up when the *COOLANT* temperature reaches normal, not the *OIL* temperature! Starting out on a warm day, coolant hits normal within a half-mile, but oil is still sitting at 150 degF (my normal seems to be 210-214 degF) and the redline is already moved up to the normal position.

Personally I like the *OIL* to be warm to consider the engine warmed up, but apparently the factory doesn't agree. Consider yourself informed
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:23 PM   #2
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It's good advice for the non-mechanically-empathetic. I've always waited for the oil to get good 'n hot before hammering on things.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:54 PM   #3
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It's good advice for the non-mechanically-empathetic. I've always waited for the oil to get good 'n hot before hammering on things.
What does the user manual say for the S6? The RS5 manual says oil operating temperature is reached at 140 degF, even though it will continue to climb until around 200 to 210 or even higher depending on how I drive, but according to the user manual once the oil reaches 140 degF the engine is ready to go.
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:14 AM   #4
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I've always wondered what deciding factor(s) were behind the redline change. I thought I just read that it was based on oil temperature, but I guess not! Strange, because I've come back to my car after it's been sitting a short while to find the coolant temp still at 4 bars, while the redline is down to 5400 and vice versa where I've had the coolant temperature at 2 bars and the redline was still at 6400.

Starting to think it's voodoo.
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:33 AM   #5
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I park in a parking garage in downtown Seattle so my redline stays until both coolant and oil are up to temp.
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:25 AM   #6
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What does the user manual say for the S6?
Good point, I don't recall TFM mentioning it - probably because the A6/S6 don't ship with the oil temperature enabled I'll take a look tonight to see - and thanks for the info from the RS!
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Old 08-04-2014, 09:29 AM   #7
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On the S6 my oil temp starts to register around 140-ish. I usually look for >160 before I use any heavy throttle.

On my stg3 B5S4 my threshold was >175F and the K04s never had any issues.
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Old 08-04-2014, 09:40 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Richard Solomon View Post
Personally I like the *OIL* to be warm to consider the engine warmed up, but apparently the factory doesn't agree. Consider yourself informed
Good advice. I take it easy for the first 15-25 minutes (light throttle) so all the engine components equalize. Never had a head gasket blow even with engines where it was a known weakness (iron block with aluminum heads).
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:25 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by ronbars View Post
I've always wondered what deciding factor(s) were behind the redline change. I thought I just read that it was based on oil temperature, but I guess not! Strange, because I've come back to my car after it's been sitting a short while to find the coolant temp still at 4 bars, while the redline is down to 5400 and vice versa where I've had the coolant temperature at 2 bars and the redline was still at 6400.

Starting to think it's voodoo.
It is based on oil temperature. The oil needs to reach a certain viscosity before it is safe to rev the engine to redline. It seems that 140 degF is that point if the RS5 is any indication. Synthetic oil has a wide operating range. While 140 is enough for proper lubrication, "normal" operating temperature is around 210 where the oil is hot enough to burn contaminates such as water etc. The sooner you get on the throttle (once it is safe to redline) the quicker the oil reaches the point where it is effective at burning off all that crap. You also want to get the oil real hot on even the shortest trip to help burn off the carbon that would otherwise build up on these FSI engines. So, by taking it easy too long the oil is spending more time at lower temperature and may not even reach the optimal temperature on short trips, which over time leads to carbon buildup.
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:55 PM   #10
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^^^ My philosophy is a little different: The metal bits, which expand at different rates, are still stabilizing, even when the coolant is long up to temp. I figure if the oil is still getting warmer, the block (which can hardly have a worse heat capacity) is too. Hence, no fun until the oil is warm (85-95C, depending upon ambient temps).
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:34 PM   #11
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^^^ My philosophy is a little different: The metal bits, which expand at different rates, are still stabilizing, even when the coolant is long up to temp. I figure if the oil is still getting warmer, the block (which can hardly have a worse heat capacity) is too. Hence, no fun until the oil is warm (85-95C, depending upon ambient temps).
FWIW, this is what it says in my user manual. Note how it says the engine has reached operating temperature once the oil temp is above 140. I figured what works for the high strung RS5 engine, should be good for the lower revving 4.0 TT.

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Old 08-04-2014, 05:26 PM   #12
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It's possible that the metallurgy and machining of todays engines allow "zero wear" (from a perspective of mis-matched piston to bore sizing) at a block temperature of 60C. Knowing the little I do about metals and temp-related expansion, I doubt it. I think Audi is pandering to the way most owners drive, with the resulting wear causing some oil usage and reduced service life - luckily (for the manufacturer), the former is usually not warrantied and the latter occurring well beyond the warranty period.
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:07 PM   #13
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Has anyone ever hit the reduced variable redline while the lights are lit? Does it actually cut throttle like the full redline should?
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:21 PM   #14
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Has anyone ever hit the reduced variable redline while the lights are lit? Does it actually cut throttle like the full redline should?
I asked that question some time ago and someone chimed in that it does, with the authority of someone who's tried it. For the reasons noted above, I'll never purposely put it to the test.
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:58 PM   #15
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I tend toward DeerHunter's mindset as well. Superswiss makes an excellent point about being sure to get oil up to temp - I just think that's best done with more moderate throttle and loads. I'm not the one to tell*, but I suspect even light throttle will get oil up to temp pretty quickly in most cases.

Definitely get the engine warmed up and then Katie-bar-the-door

*I'm told that I don't understand the meaning of "light throttle"
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by DeerHunter View Post
It's possible that the metallurgy and machining of todays engines allow "zero wear" (from a perspective of mis-matched piston to bore sizing) at a block temperature of 60C. Knowing the little I do about metals and temp-related expansion, I doubt it. I think Audi is pandering to the way most owners drive, with the resulting wear causing some oil usage and reduced service life - luckily (for the manufacturer), the former is usually not warrantied and the latter occurring well beyond the warranty period.
I guess I'm just not over-thinking it. It's not like I start redlining the moment it hits 140, but at the same time I don't make a ceremony out of warming up the engine. If I need to give it some beans to merge on the highway in the morning, I'm not losing sleep over that. If I shorten the service life so be it. So far I haven't had major engine issues with any of my cars and the highest mileage I racked up so far on a single car was just shy of 80,000. If there are any issues past that point, it's somebody else's problem now :-). We only live once. Might as well have as much fun with the car as possible.
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Old 08-05-2014, 05:54 PM   #17
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I think the other item to consider is the temperature of the DSG. I've had vehicles in the past with a transmission fluid temperature gauge in the dash and the transmissions have always taken much longer to warm up than the engine oil.
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:53 PM   #18
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I think the other item to consider is the temperature of the DSG. I've had vehicles in the past with a transmission fluid temperature gauge in the dash and the transmissions have always taken much longer to warm up than the engine oil.
That's a good point. I'm always cringe when someone "warms up" their car in the driveway and then rockets away at full throttle. The engine may be warm, but the tranny, differential, wheel bearings, etc, sure ain't.
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