jersh

(I posted this in the D4 forum, but there were no answers)

The D3 A8 and the Bentley Continental Flying Spur were essentially the same car.

Will this continue ?

If so, when should we expect the "D4" Flying Spur model ? I notice the currently available flying spur is the same one that has been around the last 8 years or so ...

MP4.2+6.0

I think the comparison car is the Phaeton W12. Both the Phaeton and Continental are D1's, but D1 in Phaeton platform numbering, not A8 body numbering (the A8 D1 was the V8 stuffed into the old C3 Audi platform). Also both the Phaeton and the Continental were originally built in the Dresden VW plant (at the body level), while the A8 hails from Audi's Neckarsulm plant where they have the aluminum fabrication. Might have Audi + finish and lots of D3 parts underneath the yards of leather and plush carpet, but it's a much porkier steel bodied car like the Phaeton.

s4master1

correct, is the phaeton not the A8.

Mike_k

Color me confused... I thought the Phaeoton was a D3. It's not?

MP4.2+6.0

They are thought of as sister cars in some ways, a lot because of drivetrain sharing and similar sizing and pricing, but the platform is different. Ferdinand Piech was in charge of VW at the time the Phaeton arose, and had been in charge of Audi previously. Throw in CEO ego and bravado, a challenge by Mercedes into one of VW's core lower markets, a few billion Euro's/Marks, and presto, the relatively ill fated Phaeton as their line-topper.

Net, body is steel, not aluminum. Basic delta from D3/Audi A8. Motors are the same basically, 4.2 being historically Audi, while I think the W12 is a VW idea, and of course an outgrowth of the VW VR6 motor. Longitudinal transmissions w/ related quattro are typically Audi, even w/ VW branding. (Likewise the transverse ones (TT, A3) are really the true VW Synchro set up, which in particular lacks the Audi Torsen component). Phaetons also came w/ 5 speed trannies in the W12's IIRC (back at the D2 level, not the 6 speed D3), and were detuned to 420HP. Put the 420HP together with only 5 speeds and 600-1000 pounds extra, and the Phaeton is well off the D3 W12 performance mark (and probably even at least the the FSI D3 4.2, let alone D4), and way off the Bentley blown motor mark (steel and heavy, but big power + torque, and 6 speed tranny).

Mike_k

Interesting read. I always assumed they were both D3's as they were both released in 04' and the Phaeton looks identical under the hood, right down to the sheetmetal... Well, in fairness, I wasn't looking for many differences since I assumed they were the same.

The Phaeton has some toys that I think are cool and it was a consideration for me when I was buying but ultimately I passed for exactly those reasons... It's heavier, it's not aluminum (I'm in Illinois so everything steel rusts) and, well... It's a VW. I've got nothing against VW but but I'm not going to pay more for a car that's not as good and has less prestige associated with it. Call me a snob...

That and the navigation in that car appears to be an afterthought. MMI is integrated and intuitive. Hell, my 7 year old 2G MMI is still better than most of the systems currently offered in new cars.

What I liked about the Phaeton: the dehumidifier and the radiating heat with the motorized vents.

MP4.2+6.0

Indeed on your last points, Piech was reported personally to be very sensitive to interior air issues and drafts, hence unusual focus there.

Yes, that VW Nav system isn't so great. Closer to the Europe only (excepting the end of the allroad run) D2, C5 and prior A4 system.

jersh

Ok - yes, very interesting, thank you.

But looking forward, when we do see the next gen flying spur, should we expect it to be somewhat of a sister car to the D4 ... ?

As in, continues to be W12, quattro, adjustable air suspension, etc ... and perhaps graduates to the aluminum frame and get some updated electronic/convenience features ?

I am having a hard time finding any information or speculation on the next flying spur, so any thoughts are appreciated.

FlyTyinFool

Here's a test for all of you. The next time you sit in a new 2011 A8, inhale deeply through your nose and tell me what you smell...


Nope, not leather...

Nope, not new carpet...

Nope...

Nope...

And, nope!



What you smell is (drum roll please)... Nothing!


Audi invested no small amount of effort eradicating any aromas in their flagship interiors.


Now, go back and sniff it again.

Rowlie

A friend of mine has a Phaeton of almost identical age to my D3. We took his car for a 600 mile road trip, so I got to appreciate the differences between the two cars. They are not nearly as alike as I had imagined they'd be. The Phaeton definitely feels heavier and slower. The craftsmanship is similar, but the A8 is less flashy than the VW - aluminum trim rather than chrome, MMI results in fewer buttons, etc.

I was surprised by lack of sophistication in the nav system - it still uses CD's rather than a DVD, so you have to change the CD depending on where you're going. It is also not upgradable to handle iPods or streaming bluetooth.

Nice car, but I'd never trade my A8 for it.