Hey VAP question for you. I'm going your route about PS fluid but I need to know one thing...
03-16-2009, 05:58 AM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey VAP question for you. I'm going your route about PS fluid but I need to know one thing...
How thoroughly clean does the PS system have to be to introduce MB1 into it? I know I have to clean out the reservoir bottle like a surgeon and get every drop of Pentosin out of the rack and hoses, but is that good enough?
03-16-2009, 06:24 AM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,926
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He wasn't really surgical about it...
first attemps were simply swapping fluid out of the reservoir... 3-4 times IIRC... which he figured got him to about 95-99% M1. Then he did a complete 'purge'... drawing straight out of a bottle of M1, flushing the old fluid into a seperate container.
The fluids mix together fine... they don't seem to react poorly to eachother.
So basically... buy a couple bottles of M1 and do a complete purge the way he said... drawing fluid straight from the bottle and dumping the stuff that comes out into a bottle to be disposed of. From his tests... it takes less than 10 seconds to draw a whole bottle through!
The fluids mix together fine... they don't seem to react poorly to eachother.
So basically... buy a couple bottles of M1 and do a complete purge the way he said... drawing fluid straight from the bottle and dumping the stuff that comes out into a bottle to be disposed of. From his tests... it takes less than 10 seconds to draw a whole bottle through!
03-16-2009, 06:25 AM
#3
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 808
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am running full M1 right now. As Mance posted in one of his
very early posts, Pentosin and M1 will mix without adverse effects so system does not have to be completly clean. I changed mine out by simply draining and adding M1 many times over a few days. It is all M1 now. Make sure filter is cleaned every time.
03-16-2009, 07:37 AM
#5
Hindsight being 20/20 there's a couple things I would do differently today...
First & foremost is just do the whole enchilada one time RIGHT, the first time! Don't *****-foot all around it like I did initially.
When that approach is followed there's only ONE way to do it really REALLY right! However, in retrospect there are ways to accomplish it spending significantly less money than I did.
But which M1 to use? First time I went into my local FLAPS I was gape-jawed there were 3 separate Mobil 1 synthetic formulations to choose from. I had no way of knowing which to purchase and I didn't want to hurt anything so I returned home and boned-up on the various M1 sysnthetic ATFs and what features, viscosity range, cold temps/hot temps, anti-wear/anti-corrosion/anti-foaming and ESPECIALLY one that specifically mentioned a formula that helped to prevent leakage via seal conditioners as I had been dealing with rack leak a few weeks prior. And I wanted to also find a synthetic ATF that could be used in a PS system that was (at that point in time) backwards compatible with 11S as this project did not start out as a full 11S-to-M1 synthetic ATF swap.
What I chose was the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF Multi-Vehicle Formula. It's the newest formula and while it is Mercon V compatible I learned there were several reasons I should stay away from the M1 synthetic Mercon V specific formula as well as why the "new formula" MVF (multi-vehicle formula) would be the wisest choice and for several, if not many reasons for what I had in mind.
To only purge the system, with 100% 11S is probably futile and likely doesn't accomplish much of anything even when hot as it would leave a LOT of dirt/crud within the system. Particulate matter that is trapped/lodged in nooks & crannies and doesn't circulate with the 11S. And since 11S has no detergents, least makes no mention of any I don't believe an 11S purge and flush can do much of anything really. Add some M1 to 11S and drive around for a few days and you'll see what I mean, especially if running a strong reservoir magnet. Add 50/50 M1/11S and drive for a week and the PS system just oozes dirt, sludge and viscous debris. That's the time you wanna flush it when all previously stuck/lodged particulate crap has loosened up and is circulating, suspended in the oil.
Once you've run the 50/50 blend of M1/11S for a weeks or so here's the way I would approach purging/flushing. And yes, due to costs I would do it differently next time.
1. Get car up to temp... HOT!
2. Power purge all 50/50 M1/11S mixture oil into a catch can.
3. Remove and clean reservoir inside and out meticulously. I personally believe a hermetacally sealed resevoir would be better as it cuts down on air/ozone from entering the system. But at least M1 has an additive package to help prevent oil oxidation/corrosion. Reinstall reservoir when completely dry inside and no water droplets are visible when viewd with a light source. Place it in a "warm" oven of 150F or less to expedite.
4. Once reservoir is reinstalled refill with (here's where it's gonna change from what I did) Dexron ATF. Could be Dexron, Dexron II or Dexron III. Doesn't matter as M1 is completely compatible with all 3 and Dexron is CHEAP! Now go drive the car again until system is fully HOT!
5. Upon return you can start the "flush" cycle again using Dexron. Flush with 2 full quarts counting the reservoir fill you did after cleaning/reinstalling the reservoir. When reservoir runs empty from the last quart of Dexron start adding M1 and flush 1 full quart thru the system. Then top up with M1, reconnect reservoir line and install reservoir cap.
6. At the VERY least install a STRONG reservoir magnet in the strainer. Better still to install an inline filter in the reservoir return line AND a reservoir magnet! With the supplemental inline filter you'll be running cleaner oil in the PS system than was in the car before it shipped to the US!
And Dexron can be an emergency back-up oil to Mobil 1 synthetic when traveling. Dexron is available ANYWHERE! Even at
When that approach is followed there's only ONE way to do it really REALLY right! However, in retrospect there are ways to accomplish it spending significantly less money than I did.
But which M1 to use? First time I went into my local FLAPS I was gape-jawed there were 3 separate Mobil 1 synthetic formulations to choose from. I had no way of knowing which to purchase and I didn't want to hurt anything so I returned home and boned-up on the various M1 sysnthetic ATFs and what features, viscosity range, cold temps/hot temps, anti-wear/anti-corrosion/anti-foaming and ESPECIALLY one that specifically mentioned a formula that helped to prevent leakage via seal conditioners as I had been dealing with rack leak a few weeks prior. And I wanted to also find a synthetic ATF that could be used in a PS system that was (at that point in time) backwards compatible with 11S as this project did not start out as a full 11S-to-M1 synthetic ATF swap.
What I chose was the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF Multi-Vehicle Formula. It's the newest formula and while it is Mercon V compatible I learned there were several reasons I should stay away from the M1 synthetic Mercon V specific formula as well as why the "new formula" MVF (multi-vehicle formula) would be the wisest choice and for several, if not many reasons for what I had in mind.
To only purge the system, with 100% 11S is probably futile and likely doesn't accomplish much of anything even when hot as it would leave a LOT of dirt/crud within the system. Particulate matter that is trapped/lodged in nooks & crannies and doesn't circulate with the 11S. And since 11S has no detergents, least makes no mention of any I don't believe an 11S purge and flush can do much of anything really. Add some M1 to 11S and drive around for a few days and you'll see what I mean, especially if running a strong reservoir magnet. Add 50/50 M1/11S and drive for a week and the PS system just oozes dirt, sludge and viscous debris. That's the time you wanna flush it when all previously stuck/lodged particulate crap has loosened up and is circulating, suspended in the oil.
Once you've run the 50/50 blend of M1/11S for a weeks or so here's the way I would approach purging/flushing. And yes, due to costs I would do it differently next time.
1. Get car up to temp... HOT!
2. Power purge all 50/50 M1/11S mixture oil into a catch can.
3. Remove and clean reservoir inside and out meticulously. I personally believe a hermetacally sealed resevoir would be better as it cuts down on air/ozone from entering the system. But at least M1 has an additive package to help prevent oil oxidation/corrosion. Reinstall reservoir when completely dry inside and no water droplets are visible when viewd with a light source. Place it in a "warm" oven of 150F or less to expedite.
4. Once reservoir is reinstalled refill with (here's where it's gonna change from what I did) Dexron ATF. Could be Dexron, Dexron II or Dexron III. Doesn't matter as M1 is completely compatible with all 3 and Dexron is CHEAP! Now go drive the car again until system is fully HOT!
5. Upon return you can start the "flush" cycle again using Dexron. Flush with 2 full quarts counting the reservoir fill you did after cleaning/reinstalling the reservoir. When reservoir runs empty from the last quart of Dexron start adding M1 and flush 1 full quart thru the system. Then top up with M1, reconnect reservoir line and install reservoir cap.
6. At the VERY least install a STRONG reservoir magnet in the strainer. Better still to install an inline filter in the reservoir return line AND a reservoir magnet! With the supplemental inline filter you'll be running cleaner oil in the PS system than was in the car before it shipped to the US!
And Dexron can be an emergency back-up oil to Mobil 1 synthetic when traveling. Dexron is available ANYWHERE! Even at
03-16-2009, 08:01 AM
#7
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,926
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
oh really? Checked it yet?
I've got a disk drive sitting on the floor that I need to tear apart and steal the magnet from for a short-term solution.
Still trying to find some higher-temp rare earth magnets locally (in Canada!). I know they're cheap, but I don't want to have them die on my in the middle of summer. Should probably rig up some sort of cooler for it.
Still trying to find some higher-temp rare earth magnets locally (in Canada!). I know they're cheap, but I don't want to have them die on my in the middle of summer. Should probably rig up some sort of cooler for it.
Trending Topics
03-16-2009, 10:12 AM
#9
I don't personally know of anything that would change for an accumulator...
even when CHF 7 was changed to 11S one year the parts in those cars didnt change at all. Same part numbers were used for both 7 & 11S fluids. But everything I see says the oils themselves should not be mixed... but nothing about the components those oils are used in not being compatible with one or the other. All disclaimers seem to be limited to 7/11S oil compatibility rather than component compatibility.
With that said however I'm not sure how to go about the most complete and efficient flushing of an accumulator as I don't believe my above listed method for purging/flusing the PS system will be as effective on an accumulator as I don't believe "all" of its fluid is replaced/replensihed just by running the PS pump the same way the PS system fluid is. It might have to be drained/refilled manually several times to get the old/dirty oil out. I've never done that so I cannot offer any qualified answer.
With that said however I'm not sure how to go about the most complete and efficient flushing of an accumulator as I don't believe my above listed method for purging/flusing the PS system will be as effective on an accumulator as I don't believe "all" of its fluid is replaced/replensihed just by running the PS pump the same way the PS system fluid is. It might have to be drained/refilled manually several times to get the old/dirty oil out. I've never done that so I cannot offer any qualified answer.