ted99

BTW, what do you guys think about the GM Rivian Amazon threesome? pretty interesting, I think right up there with Toyota merging in Panasonic's battery operations,[/QUOTE]


Until the tie-in with Amazon, I was ready to discount Rivian as another non-automotive company that would burn through it's cash while learning to manufacture cars. I wonder if Tesla would have suffered this fate, but for the Model 3 deposits? Rivian is using the skateboard platform, so it will have a lot of flexibility on body types. Amazon has announced it's intent to be zero carbon, so I can see their path to an aluminum box on the Rivian chassis for last mile deliveries--much like the old Grumman aluminum Post Office bodies on the jeep chassis. Tesla has learned just how hard developing an automobile production line, as contrasted to low-volume production, can be. GM knows how to do this, obviously, but they are run by accountants and I don't know how long they will stick to it if ROI starts to look problematic. How many "captive" small car imports with GM labels have they run through, and discarded when they didn't get any traction in the market? I can see Amazon hanging in there for their last mile trucks, so Rivian could be a factor if they have battery supply locked in.

LavaGrau_A3

If GM hasn't been sitting around since the Bolt came out, they really don't need a stake in Rivian. They are more than capable of producing BEV pickups and SUV's.

Rivian is a little offensive to me. Their slogan should be, "All the excesses of the past, electrified for the future". Those are some gigantic, thirsty, wasteful BEV's. Large batteries result in large amounts of carbon emissions during manufacture and that puts the carbon breakeven further in the future. Yea, I guess if we're just moving to electricity with the same need for ridiculous size and unusable performance...cool.

$72,500 before incentives? No way.

alexlear

Couldn't we say the same about e-tron?

LavaGrau_A3

Can we?

I think Audi sized and powered the e-tron with considerably more restraint.

Rivian is going whole hog, without apology. Not what the world needs.

Yes, I feel a little guilty, but not a lot of choices for those seeking to avoid Tesla at all costs.

alexlear

I definitely understand your point and agree completely.

Many years ago the 2008 GMC Yukon Hybrid was given an award for Green Vehicle of the Year. At first glance this looks like a terrible choice for a green vehicle award. But the last 10 years have reinforced the fact that americans buy giant SUVs and Trucks. I'm not saying wastefulness should be rewarded but making the least efficient and most polluting vehicles more efficient is more effective than focusing on small vehicle efficiency.

Road & Track listed the Rivian R1S weight at 5842lbs and the e-tron is 5997lbs (from Bjorn Nylands video). I think they're more similar than you think!

I think the Audi will be more efficient than the Rivian SUV. Especially if sold with the tires they have shown on the prototypes.

Tom-ETRON

Yeah, We are wasteful people, there is no doubt about that. Thats why I do not buy into the environmental aspects of EV ownership, I want to buy the E-Tron because it's a nice car, and the EV powertrain is more peaceful than a fuel burner.

ted99

My sentiments exactly. I live in Texas and when someone asks why I don't drive one of those humongous pickups, my reply is that I'm not allowed--"My dick is too small".

Tom-ETRON

HAHA! If your dick is too small, you can add a lift kit, and bigger tires/wheels to the truck, instant increase in perceived size...

LavaGrau_A3

Your post reminded me of a favorite quote: