I've posted this to S4 forum, but just in case some people don't go there, i also post it here.

This is my story

I bought my new 2001 Audi S4 from Len Stoler (Owings Mills, Maryland, USA) at the end of October 2000. I loved the car; I liked the dealer (this is a second car I bought from them). The sales guy was excellent, Jamey Hebb. I would recommend the guy, but not dealer (read on), to anyone. All and all I was very happy customer.

All was good until on November 12th, 2001 when I had a misfortune of meeting a deer in a blind corner on a secondary road. The result of this meeting was an unplanned excursion off road into a ditch at considerable speed that followed by side-airbag deployment and considerable damage to the car (mostly undercarriage and as a result of air bag). I missed the deer, but in the process I entered a slide (it was actually very easily controlled but...) and ran out of road and clipped the curb with my rear wheel. Thankfully, my passenger and I were perfectly fine. But this is a story about the car and dealer. The car was not drivable and I had to tow it.

Anyway, this happened around midnight. After initial shock, I had to figure out what to do with the car and I decided that I should take it to an authorized Audi dealer so that I won't have warranty problems later. Len Stoler was the place I bought the car from and I knew they had a body shop. So, after contacting my insurance (Farmers), I took the car there. And this is when the fun really started.

At first, body shop couldn't even write an estimate. They didn't have 2001 model year in the computer, so the VIN# didn't "work". Finally, with significant help from my insurance, they managed to write first estimate. It was approximately $4700 with the completion date on December 15th. I was pleasantly surprised as I expected a lot more damage and a somewhat longer downtime.

My insurance adjuster (Tahesha Bryant) accepted the estimate, sent me a check and gave me a rental car. Things were happening, or so I thought. At the end of November, after numerous failed tries to contact the body shop by phone, I decided to stop by and see what is going on. What I found is that my car is sitting outside in snow and has not been even touched by anyone. Understandably, I was a little puzzled and upset by that fact. Since I only had rental paid for 30 days and this was week #3 I started to wonder and worry. The explanation I got from the manager #1 (I forgot his name actually) was that they found more damage and were waiting for insurance approval. In fact, he told me that there was damage to engine block and I will need a new engine block. Well, I contacted my insurance. They had absolutely no knowledge of this and as far as they were concerned, the car should be finished in a week or so. I told them everything I knew and asked them to contact dealer and expedite the process. Body shop told me they are ordering parts.

As this was about the time the holidays started, I didn't expect things to move very quickly. Yet, you can imagine my surprise when I arrived to the body shop in January, after numerous failed attempts to contact them by phone, and find my car to be in exactly same position: outside with no work done to it. By this time, 2 month later, I have still never received a single call from Len Stoler, and for the most part I couldn't catch them by calling either. My rental has already expired long time ago.

Enter manager #2 (Doug) as the manager #1 no longer works there. He tells me that they couldn't get any agreements with insurance and this is why it is taking so long. I contacted my insurance and they told me that they couldn't get in touch with body shop and make an appointment to see the car and verify the additional damage. No parts were ordered. By this time I'm beginning to lose my patience. So Doug reassures me that this is not so terrible, that they had an Audi A8 that was involved in collision that they repaired for 6 month, so my car is still "OK". As you can imagine, that didn't reassure me at all. So I contacted Len Stoler VP, Berry Stoler, and told him everything that was going on. He listened and also reassured me that they are trying to repair my car as fast as possible.

Once again, I contacted my insurance adjuster and her supervisor and told them everything. I also asked them if I should move car to another shop for repairs. But they advised me not to do it since it would start everything from the beginning. Later same month my insurance was finally able to contact Doug and come to see the car. It was still outside snow. The insurance adjuster received absolutely no help from body shop as they had to lie down in snow under the car to see the damage for themselves. It turned out that there was no engine damage. That the only part of engine that needed replacement was an oil pan. Later Audi Tech confirmed that as well. So, finally, insurance and body shop agreed on the money, or so it seemed. Insurance once again sent me a check. Now the total was at ~$13,000. Once again body shop told me they ordered parts and will take car to service for mechanical work as soon as possible.

Middle of February, after my continuous fruitless attempts to find out what is happening, I, once again, go to the body shop to see how the repairs are progressing. What I find is that nothing changed. Car is still in same position and has not been touched by anyone. Doug is telling me that my insurance didn't approve enough money for repairs; however, he doesn't actually know how much money they need to repair the car until they finish repair. Basically, he is giving me a circular logic: we can't start working on the car until we have the money, but we can't have the money until we finish. Not only that it didn't make any sense, but also what was infuriating is that no one TELLS me that at any time. I'm in the dark, my insurance is getting exactly same information as me: NOTHING. I still receive no calls from body shop and still have hard time contacting them myself. When I went to see Berry Stoler, I got exactly the same circular logic from him as well.

After basically wasting a day there, I finally got an idea to call Audi USA. This was something I should have done earlier, but just didn't think about. I contacted Audi on February 12th, 3 month after the accident, I told them everything that has happened and asked them for help. They agreed to document the complaint and contact the dealer.

They did. I received my FIRST call from body shop the next day. Not only that, but they told me that the car is in service and the repairs are being done! So things finally started to move. At least they couldn't ignore the car that was on the lift in the service. I even started to get occasional calls from both Audi USA and body shop with progress information. Doug kept assuring me that they would repair the car as new since that is the way it basically was before the accident. Meanwhile I still had no transportation and had to borrow one of my parents' cars to get around. And, of course, I was still paying for my new car.
On March 13th, a day before I was leaving the country for vacation, I received two calls: one from Audi and one from Doug. Both told me that the car would be ready next week. Doug still wouldn't say what the cost was, but I was not worried about that as I knew that my insurance had already accepted the idea of them repairing the car and billing insurance after that. So, I left for vacation happily anticipating that by the time I return, 12 days later, I will have my car ready for me.

Silly me. I returned on March 26th and the first thing I did was to call Doug and ask him if the car was ready. He told me that it was not, that there are few little things that service needs to finish and that I should have it in couple of days. These couple of days became a week, then two, then three. According to Doug, they kept getting a wrong part from Audi. So, on the second week of waiting, I once again called Audi USA and asked them for help. At the same time, I finally was able to convince Len Stoler to give me a loaner car on Wednesday April 4th. They did so and promised to let me have it until the repairs were finished. That was anticipated on Friday April 10th. They also sent me (and my insurance) the complete cost of repairs, it was ~$19,000. I called my insurance; they wanted to have a meeting with the shop to get some explanation of the repair costs, as they were not documented very well in the invoice. I was ok with that.

Enter body shop manager # 3, Roy, as Doug had his last day on Friday. During that week I kept calling Doug and Roy, trying to find out the reasons for delays. But I couldn't get any definitive answer other then "we have some minor things to finish and we will call you when it was ready".

Friday came and no one called me. So I decided to go there and see where my car is. This was after hours and I couldn't talk to anyone. I just wanted to see if the car was still in the shop or outside "ready". The car was outside, parked in front of the shop. It looked ready until I came closer. There were multiple places where repairs were not complete or terribly done. I made some notes for myself and left. I was waiting for the call on Monday. It came. Roy was not in the office that day, so I got a call from Linda (I have no clue who she is). She told me that the car was ready and that I need to come, pay, and pick it up.

I took my digital camera and went to the shop. This is the list of what I found to be substandard or outright damaged in the car:

1. Driver's seat is in a very bad shape. It is not smooth. The stitches are coming out. Upholstery is wrinkled and has a lot of marks. The shop had to reupholster the seat because of the deployment of the side airbag. They did really bad job and on top they wore the seat out?!
2. Driver's seat is in incorrect position. Rails are not properly aligned and seat is pushed to the right (center console). It is also possible that center console was moved as well. This was due to the same airbag. I pointed that out back in November and it WAS on the estimate. But nothing was done to fix it.
3. The front wheel wells are supposed to be all black, however they are painted silver in some spots. Also, the finish of the front bumper in wheel wells is terrible and wrong type of screws is used.
4. Left front fender doesn't align to the hood, bumper and door. There are multiple places where transition from fender to neighboring parts is not smooth
5. Rear seat has indentations, and scratch marks. This is due to negligence on the part of body shop (or service) as there was no damage to this part of the car. In fact car looks very neglected inside. Leather and carpet is in very bad shape. As service was repairing the floor of the car, they had to take all the insides out. They left it lying on the floor of the service department for weeks with heavy objects lying on top of soft leather seats. Hence, the marks and indentations. This I saw myself.
6. Car has a lot of marks and scratches in the interior in various places. Interior looks as the car has been abused for past half a year. Both, the interior and exterior are very dirty.
7. The engine compartment is dirty as well.
8. Exhaust pipes are about an inch and a half lower then they should be (exhaust was replaced).

I could not look under the car as they refused to put the car on the lift, stating that all lifts were busy (this dealership has at least 3 service departments). I also couldn't get to drive the car. So I didn't know if there was more damage underneath or if the car drove well.

I took pictures, and told them that this car is in unacceptable shape and that I will not take it like that. I also sent pictures and the list to my insurance. Linda told me that she has to convey my concerns to Roy and that he would be in touch with me on Tuesday. So I went home. Tuesday nothing happened and on Wednesday my insurance adjustment had a meeting with Roy, so I decided to go there and see what the outcome is.

I looked at the car and they had fixed a few things on my list. They cleaned the car, fixed #3 and attempted to fix #2 and #4. But in both cases they didn't do it well still. So I told that to Roy. The answer I got from him was this: the driver seat is fine; the rest was your fault as we got the car in that condition! I could not believe it. He could look into my eyes and tell me that even though the right seat and the lefts seat look different and that the driver's seat is clearly not in the right place. And they had car for 21 weeks and I for 6 and I wore it out!? I haven't even used rear seat once (no family)! He was claming ignorance, as he was only there for couple of days, but at the same time stating that I caused that damage 5 months ago.

It took me half an hour to make him see that the seat was not in the right place and that the fender needs adjustment. On top of it, we realized that they forgot to replace the passenger seatbelt (though I stated that I had passenger many times). This is a definite safety issue as the seatbelts are charged and become ineffective after one accident. He agreed to fix those, but still took away my loaner, thus going back on the word of letting me keep it until my car is finished. But is still was talking to deaf ears as far as scratches and upholstery was concerned.

And this is where we stand now. It is Thursday April 12th, exactly 5 months from the date of accident. I still have no car and I have now extra few hundred, at least, dollars worth of damage done to my interior that no one is accepting the responsibility for. Audi USA is refusing to help, stating that this is a dealer issue and they have no say in it.

Needless to say that Len Stoler lost me as customer. However, I don't want this to be the end. As I tell my story to some of the people I know I find that I'm not the only one that had/has problems with them. This is why I want to sue them. I don't even care so much about the money. I'm not poor and I can afford a few hundred dollars. It's the principle. I want them to be responsible for what they do and stop acting as if customers OWE them something. If they can't handle the repair, they should say that in the beginning. I would go someplace else.


April 12, 2001


Genna Melamed

UPDATES:

April 16, 2001. I finally got the car. They fixed most of the things I showed them. However, I still found more things wrong. Some got fixed, some I found only when I got home:

1. There was dirt wedged between the tire and a rim on one of the wheels. I saw it when I made them lift the car for me. I can't believe that they didn't see it. So they had to take tire off the rim and reassemble it while I waited.
2. Windshield washer hose is NOT CONNECTED. It sprays under the car, not on the windshield!
3. Seatbelts were twisted. I made them fix it. Yet they still didn't do it right
4. There are multiple screws missing in various places
5. There are some paint over sprayings
6. The driver's seat has some more places where it was not put together correctly. It actually has a hole in the back
7. Drive-shaft (or transfer case) is making strange noises

April 18, 2001. I've scheduled an appointment with them on April 30. We'll see....

Meanwhile, i'm looking for good lawyer...

 

Sorry about your trouble, hope you can get it settled legaly

 

Moral of the story......HIT THE DEER :-)

 

Both your insurance & the dealership are taking you for a ride! Ask me how I know?

I'm had several dealings with both, had to hire a lawyer several times. Last incedent, I hired a lawyer within a week after my accident.

With that much damage, you would be better off
probably selling the car, or getting the insurance to "total" it.

You still making payments?

Tell your Bank whats going on! After all they actually own the car! They have all sorts of lawyers!

 

This whole deal is totally unacceptable.
The first big warning flag was when manager #1 disappeared. I would have told you to yank the car out of there and take it elsewhere. 3 managers in the timespan of this repair? That's a very bad sign.
I normally don't like to recommend them, but in this instance you might want to have the car looked at by a Wreck Check shop. They will examine the car and see if it was properly repaired. If not, they will prepare a 'diminished value' appraisal for the damage done by the inferior repairs. This would give you some legal leverage, but not all states accept diminished value claims as legal (mine doesn't). Still, it could be useful. Do a search on the web for them.
Audi USA can't control the quality of a shop, but it does reflect on them. They will most likely stay out of it, however.
Your insurance co has limited control also. Unless the shop is one of their direct repair program shops (you picked this shop, so you're on your own) they have no obligation to handle quality control issues. They only have to pay to put the car back to the way it was, assuming the shop is doing the work properly.
Your lienholder may or may not be of any help. If you purchased the car through VW Credit, don't expect any help.
I would definately have the car looked at by another shop or Wreck Check appraiser. Have them prepare an estimate to fix all the defects and sue the dealer for this amount, plus the rental cost for the amount of time you were out of a vehicle. I think this is reasonable.
BTW, going to a dealer shop has nothing to do with the quality of work or your warranty. Your warranty is still in effect as long as the car is repaired with Audi original parts.

Dwight Varnes
86 CGT
Insurance adjuster by day

 

If you hit the deer, it is a comprehensive loss. You will probably have a lower deductible or none at all, and it will not count against you on your insurance.
If you miss the deer but crash the car like this fellow, it is a collision loss. Your collision deductible applies and it will be a chargeable accident on your policy, inviting a rate increase.
Clobber the deer! And no, they don't "come through the windshield". I've yet to see that actually happen.

 

did i just read a book?

 

my sister hit a dear with an explorer, and you wouldn't beleave the damage that it caused...

 

...my mother hit a deer with her Saab convt. doing 70+ mph on the interstate (no time to brake). Busted all the lights up front and crinkled the hood but otherwise there was nothing wrong with the car. After reporting the accident with the state police she drove the remaning 70 miles home. Had the car fixed and back within two weeks.

I hope that's not what they mean by "built Ford tough"???
---
Andrew
90 80q
91 90
95 90q

 

when she was in high school. Totally destroyed the car they were in. Apparently her and some school mates were "cruising" some back country roads one night and blammo! Horse came out of nowhere...

Steve Ankney
88 5k
Holland, Michigan