av8shun

I've reading lots on on DPP. GIAC, APR and REVO seem to be the closest to the ultimate software solution for my 2005 allroad - but aren't quite there yet.

So here's my wish list items for all the DiPPing software vendors:

1. Ability to shift to various programs on-the-fly. No stopping, shutting down, etc. (APR seems to implement correctly. GIAC and REVO require a dongle and shutdown)

2. Ability to user-reprogram EXACT, stock ECU config for service appts. (No software garbage left behind in the ECU - no dates, revision codes?, incorrect checksums, error flags, etc. No evidence whatsoever.) [GIAC seems the best at this - APR and REVO don't seem as good at "undoing" what they've done.]

3. Automatic email updates when new software comes out for my vehicle. (Reasonable subscription service fee $50/yr? - Vendors are you listening? This is how many software vendors generate revenue for ongoing development, etc.)

4. Reprogram with a laptop and data cable - no special dongle, etc. (APR seems to be closest to this - although they're not ready for the 2.7T '05 yet. GIAC and REVO have dongles)

5. No required dealer visits to implement any phase of the installation. Everything should be web/email/laptop based for the end user.

I'm sure you could tie the software in with the VIN or something in order to prevent piracy. Forcing the end user to visit the software dealer is a drag.

Also, $800 (out the door) is simply too expensive. I'd gladly pay $300 for the software...but $800?

Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of the facts about GIAC, REVO or APR. Maybe there's another vendor that offers something closer to what I'm after.

If the price/conveneince doesn't get better - here's my prediction:

SOME SMARTASS, SOFTWARE GEEK (WITH AN AUDI) WILL FORM AN OPEN SOURCE WEBSITE WHERE AUDI PEOPLE CAN DOWNLOAD, SHARE AND IMPLEMENT VARIOUS SOFTWARE CONFIGS AND INTERFACING PROGRAMS FOR THEIR PROGRAMMABLE CARS. USERS COULD VOTE (SELF GOVERN) ON WHAT PROGRAMS ARE THE BEST. THUS, HARNESSING THE POWER OF EVERY ENTHUSIAST OUT THERE TO BECOME A VIRTUAL TESTBED. THE GREAT PROGRAMS WILL RISE TO THE TOP, CRAPPY ONES TO THE BOTTOM. EVERYTHING WILL BE FOR FREE. AHHHHH....THE WEB.

If someone knows of a movement like this happening - point the way. I'm there.

-AV8

nothing

Maybe you should be getting the website set up, see who shows up to contribute.

ModifiedA4

your vin or any identifying information isnt in the ECU. probably the reason for dealer visit.

av8shun

Doesn't Audi currently lock down ECU exchanges by basing some secret instrument cluster codes (Immobilizer III)?

Seems to me it's feasible for the software tuners to base anti-piracy techniques on the same strategy.

Input your cluster code (or some other unique ID that the ECU can access) into the tuner website profile. Out pops custom, authorized software for your car only.

Presto - tuners are happy. prices go low. drivers are happy.

paulroad

can';t ahppen too much encryption...

av8shun

what can't happen - DPP? hey....is this all just a big hoax?

skabaru

email updates: this is a no brainer. look at the computer software industry, there should be NO DIFFICULTY getting this happening, and it should be free. hell, the actual tuner should offer it. a simple login to their site, add your address to find your closest or preferred shop, etc. It is stupid that they don't have that right now. stupid.

the open source one... YEAH. THAT is a good idea. that scares the crap outta me. it is one thing to use open source software. worst case scenario I have to reinstall the OS, and a really bad day, I could overheat something due to poor power management.. .but nothing too big.

but a car? a bit too much to hand to the idiots out there in the world. you ever hung out on VWvortex? there are kids that get excited because they turned the boost up to 24psi on their k03. nevermind that is the turbo can't really DO that efficiently. Or that they have no fueling upgrades. There are too many variables in there for me to hand it to some stupid kids on the internet. It is nice that there is some tweaking out there in terms of the limmiwinks and the APR ecu whatever thing and SPPR or whatever... but in the hands of an idiot, you are in trouble if you give people much more...

the cost of the chip is really to cover the cost of the R&D and all that...

and honestly, as much as people complain about the prices, tell me a BETTER HP/$ improvement out there... really, it is one of the best deals in auto tuning land. no question. it is (relatively) safe, virtually no decrease in driveability, SUPER easy to install, and no work required to keep it running. Compare it to ANY normally aspirated car and show me a cheaper easier mod that nets the same gain.

av8shun

People don't need to be saved from themselves.

An idiot, no matter how the car's config'd, will trash their car. You're not going to lower that chance by limiting their ability to tweek software.

Good open source programs would get good reviews by the majority of people and tend to get more votes. They'd end up emulating the best of the current programs out there and be nourished by all the passionate folks on this forum.

If you're such an idiot as to triple boost your turbo and your tranny implodes - that's your problem. It's kinda Darwinian that way. Just be sure to report back here and explain what an idiot you've been.

(On a side note about idiots - why are tuners programming chips for Tiptronic cars that supply more than 310 ft-lbs to the tranny? Is it me? Isn't it idiotic to pump more torque than is allowable? The AMS progam seems to be the only company to actually be considerate to this fact. Can someone please chime in and provide an explaination?)

The big issue I see is that many of the tuners have...what...1, 2 maybe 3 people coding software for the cars? Then another couple of people verifing the programs. Programs, updates, etc. are coming out too slow. What if virtual software team had 100 people coding and 2000 people verifying?

This might not happen this year...or the next, but it's bound to gravitate toward a system like this. It must. We're all tinkerers and this is tinkering.

dan farmer

When I hook up my VAG-COM and connect to the ECU, my VIN shows up on the screen. nuff said.

-df

Audi2ptzero

Lets not forget that each model is different and the tuning for each model seems to change each year. This means more work for the tuner and this means the price of the software is always going to be higher then what you want to spend. Less profit means less R&D. I mean would you stand there and take a 62.5% pay cut at your work if they asked you? It seems most want to pay less money for things but would NEVER get paid less for what they do.