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K04 problems: graph of requested vs actual boost

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Old Jun 10, 2002 | 11:16 AM
  #11  
S4iowa's Avatar
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Default I think I have your answer.... I hope...

This was a pretty big problem in the DSM (Talon, Eclipse) groups that I was part of when I used to have one. I am pasting a brief description and solution that I found doing a couple of quick searches. It doesn't sound like anyone has tried any of the fixes here yet.
Let me know if anyone has tried these and I will see if I can find some other options. But I think there are really just the 2 causes so....

> You mentioned that the spikes occur at lower rpms. I am running about
> 16psi using a BoostGraphic. What I see is that at lower rpms, the
> boost does *not* spike (at least not much), but at higher rpms, I get
> a serious (4-6psi) spike.

Does this occur when you first bring the boost up (i.e. you get on the
gas, and boost shoots to 19 psi and quickly goes back to 16), or does the
boost stay at 16 psi through the midrange and then start increasing at higher
rpms? If it stays constant then increases at high rpms, you do have boost
creep. Boost creep is caused by inadequate wastegate capacity. Once you
reduce backpressure enough (a downpipe/testpipe/free flow exhaust combo
will often do it), the stock wastegate becomes inadequate. To fix
it, you have a couple of options: 1. Increase wastegate capacity by
enlarging the internal wastegate opening or 2. increase exhaust backpressure.
Option 1 is the preferred choice since reducing backpressure as much
as possible is otherwise beneficial. Another possibility might be that the
boost graphic is malfunctioning and not working properly. A properly
functioning bleeder valve should not cause boost creep.
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Old Jun 10, 2002 | 12:59 PM
  #12  
berkel's Avatar
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Default Cool - good choice on the Todas

I had Toda spec bs, ITR tranny, JDM FD, Spoon flywheel, KAAZ LSD, JDM ITR pistons, etc. etc. Car was sweet, but after a lot of downtime and money spent (since I didn't/couldn't do the wrenching myself), I had to pass the car on.

Keep in mind that all motor when you have a lot of mods still requires a lot of maint and care. It's not necessarily totally reliable. For example, lots of guys on Honda-Tech are reporting wear on Ti retainers, timing belts breaking, etc. Just be careful man! I had chosen all motor so my car would be reliable, but it wasn't meant to be...

With a fairly mild setup, you can have probably the best handling FWD car with good power (13s on street tires) and still be pretty reliable.

If you don't already, check out honda-tech.com. I'm a moderator for the DFH~Decal Free Hondas forum, even though I don't even have a Honda anymore. =)

Take care,

FB<ul><li><a href="http://www.honda-tech.com">Honda-tech - good technical/fun honda forum</a></li></ul>
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Old Jun 10, 2002 | 02:32 PM
  #13  
Pelican Blue-T28's Avatar
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Default You are talking the difference between a boost controlled turbo

and one using the ecu/chip still. The problem with the dsm cars were that the 02 housing is too small causing boost creep since that housing is a L while our exhaust comes right off of the back of the turbo.

BTW you cant just use a bleeder valve on a car that has a boost sensor and will throw codes and make the car run into limp mode.

You are playing 2 different games when it comes to your non dbw 98 and the 2001 car that has twice as many sensors.
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Old Jun 10, 2002 | 10:04 PM
  #14  
Joe (zyxt)'s Avatar
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Default I'm using the TT 710N bpv currently...

Shouldn't that be okay? I had also tried a Bailey and a Forge, and neither of them seemed to help much. I do find that the 710N valve responds better than the aftermarket BPVs, though.
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Old Jun 10, 2002 | 10:09 PM
  #15  
Joe (zyxt)'s Avatar
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Default I can go log them for you...

Off hand I don't recall what those blocks measure. Can you refresh my memory?
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Old Jun 10, 2002 | 10:18 PM
  #16  
Pelican Blue-T28's Avatar
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Default 003 is injector/maf/ rpms 031 is 02 readings but they are read backwards compared to the rest of the

years and 054 is the throttle readings.
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Old Jun 10, 2002 | 10:19 PM
  #17  
Pelican Blue-T28's Avatar
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Default But he does not have a normal K04, his wheel has been clipped.

Which changes the way the turbo makes boost.
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Old Jun 10, 2002 | 10:25 PM
  #18  
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Default

I have also noticed that the Bosch valves tend to work better.
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Old Jun 11, 2002 | 06:04 AM
  #19  
S4iowa's Avatar
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Default Yeah, that sounds about right...

I never had that problem on my talon, since I never moded that far. But I do agree that a non-dbw and a dbw ECU are going to react differnt to the same mod. Is the boost spike/creep problem common on the DBW's that do a K04 upgrade??
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Old Jun 11, 2002 | 08:49 AM
  #20  
Pelican Blue-T28's Avatar
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Default Not at all. I even ran my K03 hard with a lot of boost and never saw boost creep.

I also ran my PES T28 kit with a stock 2.25" down pipe and did not have a problem. But since our cars work on a load the boost will be higher when pushed hard at 3000 in higher gears but as rpms rise the boost will come down. I think the issue joe is seeing has to do more with the 2001 car and not really dbw because I know others that run K04's on their 2000 and there is not a issue.
I also have a 95 GST eclipse still running stock other then a new wastegate actuator from HRC and the car runs mid 14's.
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