OK, who's ready for a 500hp Audi TT?
05-12-2001, 09:16 AM
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OK, who's ready for a 500hp Audi TT?
This may be old news by now, but I thought I would share something I just read in the June '01 issue of Motor Trend. On page 70, there is an article about HPA Motorsports GT6 twin-turbo VR6 New Beetle, which cranks out 508hp and *gulp* 556ft-lb of torque @3400rpm through a TT quattro driveline...I thought the Haldex clutches could only handle 300hp??? Here are more snippets from the article:
"...according to HPA, an all-wheel-drive twin-turbo V6 conversion can be performed on any current model Beetle, Jetta, Golf/GTI, or Audi TT"
"And in case you suspect a TT driveline can't handle 500 horses, HPA has confirmed Audi AG's testing of it up to 800hp(!) without failure"
"Our best 0-60 run of 4.25 sec is the quickest we've seen this year, with a less impressive quarter mile of 12.99 sec at 102.41 mph. We suspect the GT6 is even quicker and could probably achieve a 4.0 and 12.55/109..."
The cost of the conversion to the $16,450 base New Beetle 1.8T (including upgrades to brakes, suspension, wheels/tires) is $50-55K. I suspect it would be less if you started with a TT, since you'd already have the driveline...
"...according to HPA, an all-wheel-drive twin-turbo V6 conversion can be performed on any current model Beetle, Jetta, Golf/GTI, or Audi TT"
"And in case you suspect a TT driveline can't handle 500 horses, HPA has confirmed Audi AG's testing of it up to 800hp(!) without failure"
"Our best 0-60 run of 4.25 sec is the quickest we've seen this year, with a less impressive quarter mile of 12.99 sec at 102.41 mph. We suspect the GT6 is even quicker and could probably achieve a 4.0 and 12.55/109..."
The cost of the conversion to the $16,450 base New Beetle 1.8T (including upgrades to brakes, suspension, wheels/tires) is $50-55K. I suspect it would be less if you started with a TT, since you'd already have the driveline...
05-13-2001, 04:29 PM
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Doubt its making 500hp...maybe 320hp (more inside)
"Our best 0-60 run of 4.25 sec is the quickest we've seen this year, with a less impressive quarter mile of 12.99 sec at 102.41 mph. We suspect the GT6 is even quicker and could probably achieve a 4.0 and 12.55/109"
I'm not sure how much the Beetle weighs with the VR6 twin turbo and TT driveline, but I'd guess about 3300#(my TTQ180 weighs 3100 and ran 14.9 @ 97mph with a chip & exhaust )...based on those trap speeds its nowhere near 500hp.
I have a 72 Vette with 540hp/510tq and it runs 11.60 in the quarter @ 120+mph...it weighs 3100# also...trap speed is a good indication of HP.
I bet you could run 12.99's in a TTQ with APR's Stage III+ when it becomes available. I think a few of of the Stage III APR A4's have run low 13's and I know a few of the chipped/exhaust S4 have run low 13's @ 104 or so and they have about 350hp but a lot more weight.
I'm not sure how much the Beetle weighs with the VR6 twin turbo and TT driveline, but I'd guess about 3300#(my TTQ180 weighs 3100 and ran 14.9 @ 97mph with a chip & exhaust )...based on those trap speeds its nowhere near 500hp.
I have a 72 Vette with 540hp/510tq and it runs 11.60 in the quarter @ 120+mph...it weighs 3100# also...trap speed is a good indication of HP.
I bet you could run 12.99's in a TTQ with APR's Stage III+ when it becomes available. I think a few of of the Stage III APR A4's have run low 13's and I know a few of the chipped/exhaust S4 have run low 13's @ 104 or so and they have about 350hp but a lot more weight.
05-13-2001, 05:25 PM
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AWD gives a lower 60ft time which results in a lower trap speed...
I read the article which said the rev limiter was brought down by the computer which probably cost them .5 a second I would guess at least 10 mph. It still does sound a little high though for a car that has 500hp. I'm guessing its about ~400hp. Should be breaking into high 11's easy with 500hp.
StevenH
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05-14-2001, 09:08 AM
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You'd need to know the gearing of the cars to estimate how much HP
they are actually making. I've seen the dyno plots of the engines - they are making the claimed HP. How can you campare HP figures without any knowledge of the gearing and come up with what 1/4 mile times they can do?
05-14-2001, 03:06 PM
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So are you saying the gearing is that bad in the TT trans???
Gearing is less of a factor with that much torque.
Are you saying the gearing is causing the car to run 1.5 seconds slower than comparable cars with the same weight and horsepower?
There are formulas to get HP from weight and trap speed...and I know they don't take into account aerodynamics and gearing but they do get in the ballpark.
I shifted from 2nd to 5th(by accident of course) once and still ran an 11.77 @ 117
The TQ was able to keep my car accelerating even though the rpms dropped to near 2k rpms after the shift.
Since I don't normally use 5th when drag racing...I'd say this is a good example of 'bad gearing' and how it affects ET/Trap speeds.
Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have 500hp in my TT...but with AWD I'd expect to run low 11's all day long until the Haldex blew up.
Are you saying the gearing is causing the car to run 1.5 seconds slower than comparable cars with the same weight and horsepower?
There are formulas to get HP from weight and trap speed...and I know they don't take into account aerodynamics and gearing but they do get in the ballpark.
I shifted from 2nd to 5th(by accident of course) once and still ran an 11.77 @ 117
The TQ was able to keep my car accelerating even though the rpms dropped to near 2k rpms after the shift.
Since I don't normally use 5th when drag racing...I'd say this is a good example of 'bad gearing' and how it affects ET/Trap speeds.
Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have 500hp in my TT...but with AWD I'd expect to run low 11's all day long until the Haldex blew up.
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05-14-2001, 03:26 PM
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Yeah but 109mph?
Ill give it somewhere between 350 and 400hp.
Yes, all wheel drive cars have lower traps than equally powered rwd but they also have quicker ET's as well.
I run 104-105 in the traps with 350 or so HP. And my 60ft times are 1.83s so I doubt that short times are the issue. If it has an honest 500hp, it should run a 12 flat @112mph or so. Its not the trap speed that makes me doubt the power. But all wheel drive, short gearing, and plenty of torque, i would expect the ET to be quicker.
Ned
Yes, all wheel drive cars have lower traps than equally powered rwd but they also have quicker ET's as well.
I run 104-105 in the traps with 350 or so HP. And my 60ft times are 1.83s so I doubt that short times are the issue. If it has an honest 500hp, it should run a 12 flat @112mph or so. Its not the trap speed that makes me doubt the power. But all wheel drive, short gearing, and plenty of torque, i would expect the ET to be quicker.
Ned
05-14-2001, 06:19 PM
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The 1/4 mi time and trap speed do sound a bit off, given the hp/torque #s
And the article states they made 34 acceleration runs on the day of testing (!). Admittedly, it is difficult to believe a 2.8L biturbo V6 could put out that much power and be anywhere near reliable...but hell, I'll take a TT that does 12's in the 1/4 any day!
