Thought some here might find this useful:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...98#Post2538898

In a nutshell:

I have been running a VW 504 oil in this Q5 2.0TFSI since the first oil change at 5K, the theory being that these oils (as opposed to a 502 oil) yield significant improvements in intake deposits:

http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngi...LowerSAPS.html

The concern about using a 504 oil in a U.S. gasoline engine stems from the higher levels of sulphur, and 10% ethanol, in our fuel which in theory can cause greater formation of acidic combustion byproducts - at a level that a 504 oil's additives could not withstand for a reasonable interval.

My overall impression is that it is safe to run a 504 oil for 5K miles in these engines, and it may yield benefits with regard to deposits.

 

If so, why does VAG continue to recommend 502.00 for gasoline engines when operating in the USA??

 

Because they also recommend a 10K mile oil change interval and have to account for fuel and vehicle use that may be worse than normal.

 

The oils are all rated for 10,000 mile intervals and more.

D, do you live in an area where there is no ethanol blended with the gasoline?

 

Not sure I agree with your first statement - neither 502 nor 504 include, to my knowledge, a minimum mileage "life." 502 is a performance spec and 504 includes the same performance specs as 502 but is "long life" oil designed for cars with variable service intervals and formulated to reduce deposit formation in emissions systems. None of which is actually why I used it, as described in my initial post.

There is ethanol in the gas where I live. That's true pretty much everywhere now as far as I know. There may be pockets and individual stations here and there where you can get non-ethanol gas, but it's a dying breed in the U.S.

 

My most basic concerns are voiding the warranty on a brand-new vehicle due to use of the wrong oil and hoping that my $15 oil analysis is meaningful, even though no trend exists. If you had twelve UOAs on this engine, with the 504/507 oil, and had none of this snot-like accumulation, then you might be on to something.

If I understand you correctly, you are working on the assumption that, over the long haul, it’s going to lead to lower engine deposits, etc. What happens if you have a lube oil-related engine failure and require warranty coverage? They’ve really tightened up on using the correct spec oil because they bought a lot of engines for folks that endured the sludging problem. I’d be reluctant to test them while the engine is still under warranty. The guidelines in the Owner's Manual and supplemental publications are explicit.

On paper, the 504/507 oil "should" be better. The 502/505 spec is old…probably around since the early ‘90’s, but it’s proven to be robust and still very much appropriate for use around the globe for those 15k km fixed intervals. For me, it’s not an experiment worth attempting while a vehicle is covered by the mfr’s engine warranty. After the warranty expires, maybe.

I posed the question a couple weeks ago: Do they recommend the use of 504.00 oils in gasoline powered cars in Europe today? Nobody replied.

I hope you prove to be correct, and Audi and the other Euro car mfrs wrong. I'd do anything, within reason, to minimize this problem on our cars.

I think I’d be doing this experiment with the Mobil 504 product vs. the Castrol. Mobil makes great oils.

 

VW 504/507 oils are for clean diesels. It's a low ash synthetic oil that does not clog the DPF. Other than that, you need to use 502.00 or 505.01 oil in you 2.0TFSI Q5, not 504/507. Also, the additive packages are different for gas and diesel oils, so keep this in mind.

As for long life oils/filter, this is primarily done based off environmental concerns. The days of changing oil every 3K miles creates lots of waste oil and most countries want to reduce this, hence why automotive companies are extending the oil service intervals. The oils and filters have improved materials to last longer than the old conventional versions. If you're going to change your oil fairly often, like every 3500 miles, you can use conventional oil and filters IMO.

 

Trending would be nice, but it's actually more like $45 when you do TBN and TAN (which is all I care about in evaluating use of a 504 oil in this application). And it's sort of hard to accumulate that many within 2 oil changes.

You are correct about my assumptions. As far as lube-related engine failure, I find that to be a phenomenally unlikely event, but in any case it's going to be hard for them to deny warranty when the oil is sold at the dealer and the label says "specifically formulated for 2007+ VW and Audi engines." I could go on about other things, like how 504 is a superset of 502 in terms of performance specs, but it doesn't matter.

Actually 502 was originally created in 1997 but was "updated" in 2005. The interval over which you can use it depends on many things, including the engine and the vehicle's use.

Ok, I'll answer - yes, obviously they do. 504.00 is a gasoline engine spec that was created specifically to satisfy Euro IV oil requirements. Perhaps you're confusing it with its diesel cousin, 507.00?

I used Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 for the first change at 5K but did not do a OCI. Interestingly, it is a 504/507 oil but is "recommended" by Mobil for 502 applications as well. The reason I chose to use the Castrol product is because it is sold by VW/Audi dealers and its labeling is such that denying warranty would be even harder (see above).

 

504.00 is a gasoline spec. I think you're confused. 504 is used in 2007+ gasoline VAG cars throughout Europe, and the only reason it's not used here is because our gasoline has ethanol and higher sulphur than Euro IV fuels and there is a risk that, at longer OCIs, a 504.00 oil would not have enough additives to keep from becoming overly acidic.

Which is why I ran it for 5K and then had both TBN and TAN tested, to get an idea of whether it would do OK on that interval. It did.

Have you even read what I've written and linked to?

Conventional oils in a turbocharged VAG engine? Even for 3500 miles? Please tell me you're kidding.

 

504 is used in EU, not the US and it's not approved for gas engines in the US, only 502.00, so what the argument? The EU cars use the oil quality sensor, something the US cars don't. When the 504 oil needs to be changed, it will warn you in a EU car. Since the US cars are on time and mileage intervals, the oil quality sensor system is not enabled. VW 502.00 oil doesn't work with the oil quality sensor. Most 504 oils are both 504/507 spec and are low ash content oils. In the US, it's used for the clean diesels only, since it will not damage the DPF.

Only VAG engine that died from conventional oil was the 1.8T and that's because they never pushed the 502 spec oil in the US when it was first introduced. Even at that, some dealers were never in compliance until later on when the engines started to take a dump. Prior to that, every turbo engine from Audi used conventional oil and never died from it. It's only now a days they go to 10K miles with new cars, which is only possible with synthetics, but if you changing oil under 5K miles, conventional oil will work.