Infant seat attachment question ... - AudiWorld Forums

Go Back  AudiWorld Forums > Audi Models > Audi Q3 /Q5 / Q7 > Audi Q7 > Q7 Discussion
Reload this Page > Infant seat attachment question ...
Notices
Q7 Discussion Discussion forum for the Audi Q7 SUV built from 2005 to 2015

Infant seat attachment question ...

Reply

 
 
Old 12-24-2007, 06:52 PM
  #1
New Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 242
Default Infant seat attachment question ...

Just picked up 2008 Q7 4.2 for my wife, Quartz gray, with limestone gray interior, cold weather package, Tech package, panoramic roof and running boards.

Need to attach the base to the 2nd row. There is a set of two hooks on each side of the 2nd row. I did a lot of research on the best mounting position for the infant seat and the middle tends to be the safest. Question is, can the base be attached (using latches) in the middle of the second row using two hooks closest to the midline of the car?

Thank you for the input.
ellis_in_s4 za rulem is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2007, 08:04 PM
  #2
AudiWorld Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,958
Default

No. If you want to use LATCH, you must use outboard seating position.
mksap11 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2007, 08:06 PM
  #3
AudiWorld Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 422
Default This is what I've been doing...

in all our current vehicles, including the Q7 4.2 Premium we just finished extensive road-testing on. We use the "inside" LATCH points from the outboard seats to mount the Recaro Young Sport in the center seat position. Works perfectly on our S6 Avant, S4 Sedan, and the A8, A6, and TT loaners we've gotten.
Quatroad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2007, 03:16 AM
  #4
AudiWorld Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,958
Default Yes, it might fit, but the LATCH anchor points are too far apart to be used safely.

LATCH anchors are spaced 280mm (11.02") apart. Any further apart, and you're using them outside designed specs. A couple of links..

<a href="http://www.car-safety.org/latchfaq.html">http://www.car-safety.org/latchfaq.html</a>
<a href="http://www.ech.ab.ca/programs/LATCH.pdf">http://www.ech.ab.ca/programs/LATCH.pdf</a>
mksap11 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2007, 07:59 PM
  #5
AudiWorld Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 422
Default Re: Yes, it might fit, but the LATCH anchor points are too far apart to be used safely.

Excellent sources. IIRC, Recaro told us that for *forward facing only*, center position was acceptable using the inner lower attachment points of the outboard seats provided we also used the top (center) tether. This guidance might vary among manufacturers or even between different models of seats.
Quatroad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2007, 06:58 AM
  #6
AudiWorld Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,958
Default That still doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to be argumentative (ok, maybe a little ;-)

- The Young Sport is a front facing only design so Recaro telling your that for 'forward facing only' installations that it's OK is odd.

- The use of the inner anchor points from the outboard seating position for a center seat install is strongly discouraged unless both car seat manufacturer and automobile manufacturer indicated that it's OK to use. Recaro's owners manual make no mention of using the inner anchors for the outboard seats (their drawing actually shows 6 lower anchors, 2 for each seating position).


A couple of good reads

<a href="http://www.car-safety.org/latchfaq.html">http://www.car-safety.org/latchfaq.html</a>
<a href="http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484661.pdf">http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484661.pdf</a>
<a href="http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484662.pdf">http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484662.pdf</a>
mksap11 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2007, 07:20 PM
  #7
AudiWorld Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 422
Default Same here: I'm not trying to be argumentative (ok, maybe a little ;-)

What Recaro meant was that to use the LATCH hardware in the center positon, the carseat back must be flush against the vehicle seat (yes, that will only be the case in forward-facing installations). The reasoning is that this will not inappropriatly stress the LATCH fittings on the strap or anchors, as these may be less tolerant of attachment angle variations than regular seatbelts which are designed to accomodate a wide variety of body types. LATCH is designed with very specific seat configuration and tolerances common to all carseats. The "dimensional variations" on the average passenger is somewhat more "fluid" shall we say?

The bottom line really is if you're using the center position you could just use the vehicle's existing standard 2-point lap belt through the routing path AND the top center tether. Identical funtionality, with the built in strengths of the car's seatbelt anchors plus the added stability afforded by the top center tether. How's that?

As far as the inboard opposite LATCH points being the right/wrong distance apart, that's purely a function of specific dimensions of the vehicle seat. Since there's no design or structural difference between the inboard and outboard anchors, the only differences might be in orientation of the LATCH receptacles on the adjustable strap depending on how wide/narrow the specific installation. There certainly seems to be enough space in their design to allow some lateral play. There's nothing I've seen that says the receptacles must be at a 90-degree angle to the anchors when installed. Nevertheless, just what those tolerances are I don't know and if that really is an issue, then the lap belt alternative seems appropriate. The 2-point lap belt and LATCH strap are virtually identical for these intents and purposes.

My basic understanding of LATCH is that is was designed so that carseat installers who were careless (or stupid) about seatbelt routing paths could have a "simple" straight strap path to attach their seats with "idiot-proof" symbols and guides. Most if not all carseat manufacturers and safety professionals readily acknowledge that a properly installed carseat using the existing vehicle seatbelt hardware and specified routing paths is equal to if not superior to a LATCH mounted seat.
Quatroad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2007, 07:26 PM
  #8
AudiWorld Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 422
Default oops, just re-read your quesiton...

Ellis - just realized you're talking about infant seat with base and my reply below referred to toddler seat (1 year/20lbs). The center position is the safest and is most easily accomplished using the designated mounting path and the 2-point lap belt as per the carseat manufacturer directions. What seat are you using?
Quatroad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2007, 09:39 PM
  #9
New Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 242
Default

I am using Graco Snugride.
ellis_in_s4 za rulem is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2008, 06:25 PM
  #10
AudiWorld Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,958
Default I think we'll have to agree to disagree....

&gt; What Recaro meant was that to use the LATCH hardware in the center positon, the carseat back must be flush
&gt; against the vehicle seat (yes, that will only be the case in forward-facing installations). The reasoning is
&gt; that this will not inappropriatly stress the LATCH fittings on the strap or anchors, as these may be less
&gt; tolerant of attachment angle variations than regular seatbelts which are designed to accomodate a wide variety
&gt; of body types. LATCH is designed with very specific seat configuration and tolerances common to all carseats.
&gt; The "dimensional variations" on the average passenger is somewhat more "fluid" shall we say?

I didn't speak with Recaro, so I can't comment on what they meant to say. In the manual, they states that LATCH is preferred, but when they show where to install the seat, their pictogram shows 6 anchor points They explicitly drew in 2 lower anchors specifically for the center seating position. Some cars have middle seat lower anchors -- the 2007 MDX for example. The Q7 does *NOT*. In the Q7 manual, Audi only shows the OUTER seating positions as LATCH compatible.



&gt; The bottom line really is if you're using the center position you could just use the vehicle's existing standard
&gt; 2-point lap belt through the routing path AND the top center tether. Identical funtionality, with the built in
&gt; strengths of the car's seatbelt anchors plus the added stability afforded by the top center tether. How's that?

In fact, this is what car seat manufacturers and CPS techs will tell you; If both the car seat AND the car manufacturer do not tell you that it's OK to use the center seat with lower anchors, use the seat belt. There is also a number of people who will tell you that using the seat belt is safer than LATCH anyway since the straps on the car seats don't necessarily meet the same FMVSS standards that seat belts are required to. I don't know if that is true, however.



&gt; As far as the inboard opposite LATCH points being the right/wrong distance apart, that's purely a function of
&gt; specific dimensions of the vehicle seat. Since there's no design or structural difference between the inboard
&gt; and outboard anchors, the only differences might be in orientation of the LATCH receptacles on the adjustable
&gt; strap depending on how wide/narrow the specific installation. There certainly seems to be enough space in their
&gt; design to allow some lateral play. There's nothing I've seen that says the receptacles must be at a 90-degree
&gt; angle to the anchors when installed. Nevertheless, just what those tolerances are I don't know and if that
&gt; really is an issue, then the lap belt alternative seems appropriate. The 2-point lap belt and LATCH strap are
&gt; virtually identical for these intents and purposes.

Not true. The distance between the lower anchors is defined as 280mm (11") apart on center and is the same as the ISO-FIX standard found in Europe. It is not arbitrary and is not a "function of specific dimensions of the vehicle seat". When you use the inner two anchor points from the outer seats for a center seat install, the anchors greatly exceed 11" in the Q7 (around 16-17"). Do you know or can you say with conviction that the anchors were designed and tested with a force load that is different than the LATCH standard? I don't and can't, so whenever I use the middle seat, I always use the seat belt -- why chance it?



&gt; My basic understanding of LATCH is that is was designed so that carseat installers who were careless (or stupid)
&gt; about seatbelt routing paths could have a "simple" straight strap path to attach their seats with "idiot-proof"
&gt; symbols and guides. Most if not all carseat manufacturers and safety professionals readily acknowledge that a
&gt; properly installed carseat using the existing vehicle seatbelt hardware and specified routing paths is equal to
&gt; if not superior to a LATCH mounted seat.


Correct. LATCH isn't inherently safer than using a seat belt, just easier. If you read through any of the PDFs I posted or researched this further, one of the complaints many of the car seat safety organizations have with the recommendations from the NHTSA is that (1) people are taught that the middle seat is safest and that (2) LATCH is 'safer' but that it's not often mentioned that (3) you can *not* use latch in the middle when where are no dedicated anchors.
mksap11 is offline  
Reply With Quote
 
 
 

Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ECS Tuning-Audi
Q5/SQ5 MKI (8R) Discussion
9
02-16-2017 12:55 PM
arU4ic
Audi A3 / S3 /RS 3 MKII
20
04-03-2016 07:48 PM
DjPiLL
S6 (C7 Platform) Discussion
5
11-01-2015 06:22 PM
retiredgal14
Q5/SQ5 MKI (8R) Discussion
12
09-21-2015 02:22 PM
tripevans
A4 (B7 Platform) Discussion
0
09-05-2015 12:55 PM

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:47 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: