ellis_in_s4 za rulem

Just picked up 2008 Q7 4.2 for my wife, Quartz gray, with limestone gray interior, cold weather package, Tech package, panoramic roof and running boards.

Need to attach the base to the 2nd row. There is a set of two hooks on each side of the 2nd row. I did a lot of research on the best mounting position for the infant seat and the middle tends to be the safest. Question is, can the base be attached (using latches) in the middle of the second row using two hooks closest to the midline of the car?

Thank you for the input.

mksap11

No. If you want to use LATCH, you must use outboard seating position.

Quatroad

in all our current vehicles, including the Q7 4.2 Premium we just finished extensive road-testing on. We use the "inside" LATCH points from the outboard seats to mount the Recaro Young Sport in the center seat position. Works perfectly on our S6 Avant, S4 Sedan, and the A8, A6, and TT loaners we've gotten.

mksap11

LATCH anchors are spaced 280mm (11.02") apart. Any further apart, and you're using them outside designed specs. A couple of links..

<a href="http://www.car-safety.org/latchfaq.html">http://www.car-safety.org/latchfaq.html</a>
<a href="http://www.ech.ab.ca/programs/LATCH.pdf">http://www.ech.ab.ca/programs/LATCH.pdf</a>

Quatroad

Excellent sources. IIRC, Recaro told us that for *forward facing only*, center position was acceptable using the inner lower attachment points of the outboard seats provided we also used the top (center) tether. This guidance might vary among manufacturers or even between different models of seats.

mksap11

- The Young Sport is a front facing only design so Recaro telling your that for 'forward facing only' installations that it's OK is odd.

- The use of the inner anchor points from the outboard seating position for a center seat install is strongly discouraged unless both car seat manufacturer and automobile manufacturer indicated that it's OK to use. Recaro's owners manual make no mention of using the inner anchors for the outboard seats (their drawing actually shows 6 lower anchors, 2 for each seating position).


A couple of good reads

<a href="http://www.car-safety.org/latchfaq.html">http://www.car-safety.org/latchfaq.html</a>
<a href="http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484661.pdf">http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484661.pdf</a>
<a href="http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484662.pdf">http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484662.pdf</a>

Quatroad

What Recaro meant was that to use the LATCH hardware in the center positon, the carseat back must be flush against the vehicle seat (yes, that will only be the case in forward-facing installations). The reasoning is that this will not inappropriatly stress the LATCH fittings on the strap or anchors, as these may be less tolerant of attachment angle variations than regular seatbelts which are designed to accomodate a wide variety of body types. LATCH is designed with very specific seat configuration and tolerances common to all carseats. The "dimensional variations" on the average passenger is somewhat more "fluid" shall we say?

The bottom line really is if you're using the center position you could just use the vehicle's existing standard 2-point lap belt through the routing path AND the top center tether. Identical funtionality, with the built in strengths of the car's seatbelt anchors plus the added stability afforded by the top center tether. How's that?

As far as the inboard opposite LATCH points being the right/wrong distance apart, that's purely a function of specific dimensions of the vehicle seat. Since there's no design or structural difference between the inboard and outboard anchors, the only differences might be in orientation of the LATCH receptacles on the adjustable strap depending on how wide/narrow the specific installation. There certainly seems to be enough space in their design to allow some lateral play. There's nothing I've seen that says the receptacles must be at a 90-degree angle to the anchors when installed. Nevertheless, just what those tolerances are I don't know and if that really is an issue, then the lap belt alternative seems appropriate. The 2-point lap belt and LATCH strap are virtually identical for these intents and purposes.

My basic understanding of LATCH is that is was designed so that carseat installers who were careless (or stupid) about seatbelt routing paths could have a "simple" straight strap path to attach their seats with "idiot-proof" symbols and guides. Most if not all carseat manufacturers and safety professionals readily acknowledge that a properly installed carseat using the existing vehicle seatbelt hardware and specified routing paths is equal to if not superior to a LATCH mounted seat.

Quatroad

Ellis - just realized you're talking about infant seat with base and my reply below referred to toddler seat (1 year/20lbs). The center position is the safest and is most easily accomplished using the designated mounting path and the 2-point lap belt as per the carseat manufacturer directions. What seat are you using?

ellis_in_s4 za rulem

I am using Graco Snugride.

mksap11

&gt; What Recaro meant was that to use the LATCH hardware in the center positon, the carseat back must be flush
&gt; against the vehicle seat (yes, that will only be the case in forward-facing installations). The reasoning is
&gt; that this will not inappropriatly stress the LATCH fittings on the strap or anchors, as these may be less
&gt; tolerant of attachment angle variations than regular seatbelts which are designed to accomodate a wide variety
&gt; of body types. LATCH is designed with very specific seat configuration and tolerances common to all carseats.
&gt; The "dimensional variations" on the average passenger is somewhat more "fluid" shall we say?

I didn't speak with Recaro, so I can't comment on what they meant to say. In the manual, they states that LATCH is preferred, but when they show where to install the seat, their pictogram shows 6 anchor points They explicitly drew in 2 lower anchors specifically for the center seating position. Some cars have middle seat lower anchors -- the 2007 MDX for example. The Q7 does *NOT*. In the Q7 manual, Audi only shows the OUTER seating positions as LATCH compatible.



&gt; The bottom line really is if you're using the center position you could just use the vehicle's existing standard
&gt; 2-point lap belt through the routing path AND the top center tether. Identical funtionality, with the built in
&gt; strengths of the car's seatbelt anchors plus the added stability afforded by the top center tether. How's that?

In fact, this is what car seat manufacturers and CPS techs will tell you; If both the car seat AND the car manufacturer do not tell you that it's OK to use the center seat with lower anchors, use the seat belt. There is also a number of people who will tell you that using the seat belt is safer than LATCH anyway since the straps on the car seats don't necessarily meet the same FMVSS standards that seat belts are required to. I don't know if that is true, however.



&gt; As far as the inboard opposite LATCH points being the right/wrong distance apart, that's purely a function of
&gt; specific dimensions of the vehicle seat. Since there's no design or structural difference between the inboard
&gt; and outboard anchors, the only differences might be in orientation of the LATCH receptacles on the adjustable
&gt; strap depending on how wide/narrow the specific installation. There certainly seems to be enough space in their
&gt; design to allow some lateral play. There's nothing I've seen that says the receptacles must be at a 90-degree
&gt; angle to the anchors when installed. Nevertheless, just what those tolerances are I don't know and if that
&gt; really is an issue, then the lap belt alternative seems appropriate. The 2-point lap belt and LATCH strap are
&gt; virtually identical for these intents and purposes.

Not true. The distance between the lower anchors is defined as 280mm (11") apart on center and is the same as the ISO-FIX standard found in Europe. It is not arbitrary and is not a "function of specific dimensions of the vehicle seat". When you use the inner two anchor points from the outer seats for a center seat install, the anchors greatly exceed 11" in the Q7 (around 16-17"). Do you know or can you say with conviction that the anchors were designed and tested with a force load that is different than the LATCH standard? I don't and can't, so whenever I use the middle seat, I always use the seat belt -- why chance it?



&gt; My basic understanding of LATCH is that is was designed so that carseat installers who were careless (or stupid)
&gt; about seatbelt routing paths could have a "simple" straight strap path to attach their seats with "idiot-proof"
&gt; symbols and guides. Most if not all carseat manufacturers and safety professionals readily acknowledge that a
&gt; properly installed carseat using the existing vehicle seatbelt hardware and specified routing paths is equal to
&gt; if not superior to a LATCH mounted seat.


Correct. LATCH isn't inherently safer than using a seat belt, just easier. If you read through any of the PDFs I posted or researched this further, one of the complaints many of the car seat safety organizations have with the recommendations from the NHTSA is that (1) people are taught that the middle seat is safest and that (2) LATCH is 'safer' but that it's not often mentioned that (3) you can *not* use latch in the middle when where are no dedicated anchors.