Still can't decide between S4 and 335i
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The ZF built Steptronic delivered with the 335i is NOT the GM sourced Steptronic delivered on most BMW's. It is a new generation "automatic" with almost instant lockup TQ converters and extremely quick up/downshifts with rev matching. The transmission does not auto upshift or downshift when placed in manual mode like the Audi DSG. For road race track use this is absolutely essential and deficient in the Audi.
Also, the 335is is offered with BMW's DCT transmission.
This is why I say from experience that the transmission issue is NOT settled. IMNHO, BMW tranny's more than hold their own against Audi's DSG.
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Joined: Mar 2011
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From: New Jersey
Sure. I currently own a DSG transmission S4 and have owned 2 335i's. The e90 sedan I owned saw semi-regular track use.
The ZF built Steptronic delivered with the 335i is NOT the GM sourced Steptronic delivered on most BMW's. It is a new generation "automatic" with almost instant lockup TQ converters and extremely quick up/downshifts with rev matching. The transmission does not auto upshift or downshift when placed in manual mode like the Audi DSG. For road race track use this is absolutely essential and deficient in the Audi.
Also, the 335is is offered with BMW's DCT transmission.
This is why I say from experience that the transmission issue is NOT settled. IMNHO, BMW tranny's more than hold their own against Audi's DSG.
The ZF built Steptronic delivered with the 335i is NOT the GM sourced Steptronic delivered on most BMW's. It is a new generation "automatic" with almost instant lockup TQ converters and extremely quick up/downshifts with rev matching. The transmission does not auto upshift or downshift when placed in manual mode like the Audi DSG. For road race track use this is absolutely essential and deficient in the Audi.
Also, the 335is is offered with BMW's DCT transmission.
This is why I say from experience that the transmission issue is NOT settled. IMNHO, BMW tranny's more than hold their own against Audi's DSG.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Seattle WA
I beg to differ here.
It's either turbo lag, or transmission response time, I definitely feel a tag in 335i's powertrain when kick down, I feel that DSG is much quicker.
Also frankly for me, (I am dumb who never drove manual), the deficiency you described won't even come up at all. I think several other S4 owners have expressed the same view.
I understand your frustration with DSG, (you made it pretty obvious in other threads), but for vast majority of users, they will feel that DSG is a faster, better tranny than the 6 AT. But I do agree with you that people who expect DSG to work like a manual should think twice and possibly just buy a manual.
It's either turbo lag, or transmission response time, I definitely feel a tag in 335i's powertrain when kick down, I feel that DSG is much quicker.
Also frankly for me, (I am dumb who never drove manual), the deficiency you described won't even come up at all. I think several other S4 owners have expressed the same view.
I understand your frustration with DSG, (you made it pretty obvious in other threads), but for vast majority of users, they will feel that DSG is a faster, better tranny than the 6 AT. But I do agree with you that people who expect DSG to work like a manual should think twice and possibly just buy a manual.
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Posts: 174
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From: Montréal
Sure. I currently own a DSG transmission S4 and have owned 2 335i's. The e90 sedan I owned saw semi-regular track use.
The ZF built Steptronic delivered with the 335i is NOT the GM sourced Steptronic delivered on most BMW's. It is a new generation "automatic" with almost instant lockup TQ converters and extremely quick up/downshifts with rev matching. The transmission does not auto upshift or downshift when placed in manual mode like the Audi DSG. For road race track use this is absolutely essential and deficient in the Audi.
Also, the 335is is offered with BMW's DCT transmission.
This is why I say from experience that the transmission issue is NOT settled. IMNHO, BMW tranny's more than hold their own against Audi's DSG.
The ZF built Steptronic delivered with the 335i is NOT the GM sourced Steptronic delivered on most BMW's. It is a new generation "automatic" with almost instant lockup TQ converters and extremely quick up/downshifts with rev matching. The transmission does not auto upshift or downshift when placed in manual mode like the Audi DSG. For road race track use this is absolutely essential and deficient in the Audi.
Also, the 335is is offered with BMW's DCT transmission.
This is why I say from experience that the transmission issue is NOT settled. IMNHO, BMW tranny's more than hold their own against Audi's DSG.
However, the BMW's AT a true auto because it has a pwr-sucking torque converter: that is a major drawback in my books, vs a dual-clutch, which isn't really a true AT.
AudiWorld Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 174
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From: New Jersey
I see, so your main beef is that the BMW does hold the gear while the Audi automatically downshifts, even when you didn't want it to? I guess that is very frustrating. Ironically, when you 'move up' from that AT to the DCT, the latter auto-downshifts as well upon hard braking (although the range of it happening is quite small).
However, the BMW's AT a true auto because it has a pwr-sucking torque converter: that is a major drawback in my books, vs a dual-clutch, which isn't really a true AT.
However, the BMW's AT a true auto because it has a pwr-sucking torque converter: that is a major drawback in my books, vs a dual-clutch, which isn't really a true AT.
Last edited by Christo123; Jan 17, 2012 at 05:26 PM.
AudiWorld Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 612
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From: Balt-DC Area
Sure. I currently own a DSG transmission S4 and have owned 2 335i's. The e90 sedan I owned saw semi-regular track use.
The ZF built Steptronic delivered with the 335i is NOT the GM sourced Steptronic delivered on most BMW's. It is a new generation "automatic" with almost instant lockup TQ converters and extremely quick up/downshifts with rev matching. The transmission does not auto upshift or downshift when placed in manual mode like the Audi DSG. For road race track use this is absolutely essential and deficient in the Audi.
Also, the 335is is offered with BMW's DCT transmission.
This is why I say from experience that the transmission issue is NOT settled. IMNHO, BMW tranny's more than hold their own against Audi's DSG.
The ZF built Steptronic delivered with the 335i is NOT the GM sourced Steptronic delivered on most BMW's. It is a new generation "automatic" with almost instant lockup TQ converters and extremely quick up/downshifts with rev matching. The transmission does not auto upshift or downshift when placed in manual mode like the Audi DSG. For road race track use this is absolutely essential and deficient in the Audi.
Also, the 335is is offered with BMW's DCT transmission.
This is why I say from experience that the transmission issue is NOT settled. IMNHO, BMW tranny's more than hold their own against Audi's DSG.
They replaced that BMW with a MT at my request. Had I given it some real thought I would have had them buy me out and gotten the S4 right away.
The most maddening part of the whole process is their constant denial there is anything wrong even when you slap a 1 inch binder of other owners complaining of the same thing.
Couple more months and I will be ordering (or maybe buying a 2012) S4. Wanted to buy a BMW since I was a kid...what a let down.
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Joined: Sep 2011
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I see, so your main beef is that the BMW does hold the gear while the Audi automatically downshifts, even when you didn't want it to? I guess that is very frustrating. Ironically, when you 'move up' from that AT to the DCT, the latter auto-downshifts as well upon hard braking (although the range of it happening is quite small).
However, the BMW's AT a true auto because it has a pwr-sucking torque converter: that is a major drawback in my books, vs a dual-clutch, which isn't really a true AT.
However, the BMW's AT a true auto because it has a pwr-sucking torque converter: that is a major drawback in my books, vs a dual-clutch, which isn't really a true AT.
As for the TQ converter sucking power, I believe both cars put out similar power related performance numbers both Stock and with bolt-ons so I'm looking at the total picture. It's interesting you would bring up the small losses from the TQ converter, even though the ZF has lockup TQ converters. Consider the parasitic drag of a Supercharger in the S4 versus the efficiency of a turbocharger in the 335i in looking at the entire drive train.
The 335i allowed me to run with and beat most M3's at the track with just a few, minor upgrades. Quite frankly I'm scared to do the track days I had planned with the S4 due to the transmission issue. So I've ended up with 1/2 the car I thought had been purchased.
Last edited by sdiver68; Jan 21, 2012 at 07:39 AM.
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Sorry but I sued and won a lawsuit against BMWNA with the AT transmission almost killing me and my family. Dam fly by wire hesitation almost got us broadsided and it was caught on a traffic cam so no way to bs their way out of it. Combine that with the HPFP failures and that is one of many reasons I am looking to the S4.
They replaced that BMW with a MT at my request. Had I given it some real thought I would have had them buy me out and gotten the S4 right away.
The most maddening part of the whole process is their constant denial there is anything wrong even when you slap a 1 inch binder of other owners complaining of the same thing.
Couple more months and I will be ordering (or maybe buying a 2012) S4. Wanted to buy a BMW since I was a kid...what a let down.
They replaced that BMW with a MT at my request. Had I given it some real thought I would have had them buy me out and gotten the S4 right away.
The most maddening part of the whole process is their constant denial there is anything wrong even when you slap a 1 inch binder of other owners complaining of the same thing.
Couple more months and I will be ordering (or maybe buying a 2012) S4. Wanted to buy a BMW since I was a kid...what a let down.
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