Check engine light question..
04-06-2009, 04:04 PM
#31
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You think using a bottle of Chevron Techron in the tank at intervals would help prevent this from happening again in addition to not getting gas where I was before?
04-10-2009, 11:08 AM
#33
FWIW: I had similar problem for about a month - the CEL woiuld come on, then just go out after a few days or after numerous engine off/on's the same day. The dealer diagnosed as something like "defective low pressure fuel sensor" (is there such a thing?). They replaced it about three weeks ago and the CEL has not come back on.
2008 A4 2.0QT 12,000 miles at the time
05-05-2009, 04:55 PM
#34
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I have the same issues... Had a Low fuel pressure sensor failure twice and then the CEL came on for the mis-fire. They did something to it, tried it out the next day and still were not happy with the results. Its been 12 days now.. still no answer.
08-14-2009, 03:44 PM
#35
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2008 A4 3.2 Quattro carbon build-up/deposits on intake valves
Hi,
I've found many threads on repeated problems with carbon deposits on the FSI engines at low miles < 15k but no real solution. BG cleaning process has been discussed as a possible solution but my dealer says this will void the warranty on the car. Fuel additives have been proposed but don't seem to work either to fully prevent the problem and my dealer says you need to be careful with these as well as some will also void your warranty.
I have a 2008 A4 3.2 Quattro S-Line w/ Titanium package and have run into the same CEL/cylinder misfire issues described in several posts above. I have only used 91 fuel from Top Tier providers i.e. Shell, Chevron, etc.
At 12,901 miles the check engine light (CEL) came on and 3 cylinders in the engine were misfiring. Car was taken in to dealer on June 29th, 2009 where I was told the issue was "bad gas", the error was cleared and an additive was added.
On Aug 6th at 14,000 miles the CEL returned along with the
cylinders misfires, took it in again where I was informed there was a TSB for the issue (2014753/6). Tech found faults P0300, P0301, P0303, P0305, and P0306. The intake valves were cleaned of carbon deposits and the car returned on Aug 14th.
The vehicle is running extremely well now. Feels very responsive and sound of engines is also slightly different.
I feel this is just a band aid though since the root cause of the issue is still not resolved. Audi apparently does not know the root cause for nor can they fully resolve.
I would be responsible for the carbon cleaning charges
should it occur out of warranty. I don't think it's reasonable to shell out $1500-$2000 for intake valve cleaning's every 15k miles. Audi knew about the issue but does not inform customers when purchasing the car about this expense.
My dealer estimates that they have seen the problem (i.e. carbon deposits at low mileage) with about a third of the 2008 A6 3.2 sold in the dealership which to me constitutes a significant amount. They say the A4 3.2s are too rare in the dealership to have a good sample.
Other manufacturer's have issues with carbon deposits as well but seems to be around 50-60k..not at the low mileages seen on the FSI engines.
I logged an Audi Customer CARE case on Aug 12th in the afternoon and received a reply from Audi the next morning on Aug 13th around 8:30am-9:30am. I definitely intend to pursue the issue as to Audi's specific plans to resolve this issue.
See thread http://audiforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113568 for more details of other customer's experiences as well if interested.
-A
I've found many threads on repeated problems with carbon deposits on the FSI engines at low miles < 15k but no real solution. BG cleaning process has been discussed as a possible solution but my dealer says this will void the warranty on the car. Fuel additives have been proposed but don't seem to work either to fully prevent the problem and my dealer says you need to be careful with these as well as some will also void your warranty.
I have a 2008 A4 3.2 Quattro S-Line w/ Titanium package and have run into the same CEL/cylinder misfire issues described in several posts above. I have only used 91 fuel from Top Tier providers i.e. Shell, Chevron, etc.
At 12,901 miles the check engine light (CEL) came on and 3 cylinders in the engine were misfiring. Car was taken in to dealer on June 29th, 2009 where I was told the issue was "bad gas", the error was cleared and an additive was added.
On Aug 6th at 14,000 miles the CEL returned along with the
cylinders misfires, took it in again where I was informed there was a TSB for the issue (2014753/6). Tech found faults P0300, P0301, P0303, P0305, and P0306. The intake valves were cleaned of carbon deposits and the car returned on Aug 14th.
The vehicle is running extremely well now. Feels very responsive and sound of engines is also slightly different.
I feel this is just a band aid though since the root cause of the issue is still not resolved. Audi apparently does not know the root cause for nor can they fully resolve.
I would be responsible for the carbon cleaning charges
should it occur out of warranty. I don't think it's reasonable to shell out $1500-$2000 for intake valve cleaning's every 15k miles. Audi knew about the issue but does not inform customers when purchasing the car about this expense.
My dealer estimates that they have seen the problem (i.e. carbon deposits at low mileage) with about a third of the 2008 A6 3.2 sold in the dealership which to me constitutes a significant amount. They say the A4 3.2s are too rare in the dealership to have a good sample.
Other manufacturer's have issues with carbon deposits as well but seems to be around 50-60k..not at the low mileages seen on the FSI engines.
I logged an Audi Customer CARE case on Aug 12th in the afternoon and received a reply from Audi the next morning on Aug 13th around 8:30am-9:30am. I definitely intend to pursue the issue as to Audi's specific plans to resolve this issue.
See thread http://audiforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113568 for more details of other customer's experiences as well if interested.
-A
08-15-2009, 07:15 PM
#37
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method to slow carbon deposit build-up on FSI engines
Hi!
Contacted RI_A6 about the Biosyn oil and whether I could use in my A4 and here was his response:
"I have a 2008 A6 3.2 with the same engine, and have been using RLI Biosyn since the 1st oil change. 20K on the engine and no issues. The engine used similar design practices to the RS4 4.2 FSI engine and has the same deposit issues. The secret at the dealers is that intake valve deposits for the 3.2 engine are as bad or worse than the RS4.
RLI Biosyn is not an approved oil, however, I had it formulated to be better than approved oils. Even if you have an issue with the engine, Audi would have to prove that the oil was at fault. It will not be. My dealer has no problem with putting RLI oil into my engine. Another option is to have an independent shop perform your oil change and replace the dealer oil with Biosyn.
I would suggest the following steps for you to take:
-Change to RLI Biosyn 5W40 immediately.
-At the same time have the air filter changed. (if you are in a high dust, sand or salt environment, have the intake air filter changed every 10K miles, otherwise change it every 20K miles.)
-Begin to use RLI BioPlus fuel additive in every tank of fuel at the standard treatment rate on the bottle. Biosyn will clean the engine of the previous "gunk" left behind, so change it again at 5K miles
-Contact Terry Dyson about performing oil analysis www.dysonanalysis.com
At the oil change, have a sample taken of the previous Biosyn oil for Terry to analyze he may then recommend some additional actions or additives.
-Try to minimize short driving cycles as much as possible, especially during the winter. Cold weather climates will increase the problem if you do not allow the engine to get up to full operating temperature and burn off excess fuel that has been deposited in the oil during cold start enrichment. (it takes about 20 minutes of driving to do this)
-Once two oil change of Biosyn have been completed, the engine should be well-cleaned and remain relatively clean for most of it's life. The oil does not totally rid the engine of it's problems, but it seem to retard the deposits to a level that is acceptable and does not cause check engine lights. Thus far, all the engines using RLI Biosyn and RLI BioPlus have stayed CEL-free. Some RS4 engines now have 60K+ miles on them."
RI_A6 made the following further comments on a 2nd email exchange:
"You can purchase RLI Biosyn here:
http://www.renewablelube.com/order.htm
Purchase it by the gallon for price savings. It takes about 1 1/2 gallon (6 quarts) for 3.2L oil change. You'll want to purchase the Bio-Plus Injector Cleaner Gas Conditioner and the Bio-Synthetic Super High Performance SAE 5W40 HD
I'd purchase one of the 12 oz bottles of the Injector cleaner, and then a One Gallon bottle for refills. Be careful to wash off any that gets on your hands. It's a very strong chemical."
and "Whenever possible, use Shell V-Power 91 octane exclusively. It has additives specifically designed for Direct Injection. It won't solve the problem, but it will help a bit. In conjunction with Biosyn and BioPlus, Shell V-Power will make a difference."
Hope this helps others looking into the issue.
-A
Contacted RI_A6 about the Biosyn oil and whether I could use in my A4 and here was his response:
"I have a 2008 A6 3.2 with the same engine, and have been using RLI Biosyn since the 1st oil change. 20K on the engine and no issues. The engine used similar design practices to the RS4 4.2 FSI engine and has the same deposit issues. The secret at the dealers is that intake valve deposits for the 3.2 engine are as bad or worse than the RS4.
RLI Biosyn is not an approved oil, however, I had it formulated to be better than approved oils. Even if you have an issue with the engine, Audi would have to prove that the oil was at fault. It will not be. My dealer has no problem with putting RLI oil into my engine. Another option is to have an independent shop perform your oil change and replace the dealer oil with Biosyn.
I would suggest the following steps for you to take:
-Change to RLI Biosyn 5W40 immediately.
-At the same time have the air filter changed. (if you are in a high dust, sand or salt environment, have the intake air filter changed every 10K miles, otherwise change it every 20K miles.)
-Begin to use RLI BioPlus fuel additive in every tank of fuel at the standard treatment rate on the bottle. Biosyn will clean the engine of the previous "gunk" left behind, so change it again at 5K miles
-Contact Terry Dyson about performing oil analysis www.dysonanalysis.com
At the oil change, have a sample taken of the previous Biosyn oil for Terry to analyze he may then recommend some additional actions or additives.
-Try to minimize short driving cycles as much as possible, especially during the winter. Cold weather climates will increase the problem if you do not allow the engine to get up to full operating temperature and burn off excess fuel that has been deposited in the oil during cold start enrichment. (it takes about 20 minutes of driving to do this)
-Once two oil change of Biosyn have been completed, the engine should be well-cleaned and remain relatively clean for most of it's life. The oil does not totally rid the engine of it's problems, but it seem to retard the deposits to a level that is acceptable and does not cause check engine lights. Thus far, all the engines using RLI Biosyn and RLI BioPlus have stayed CEL-free. Some RS4 engines now have 60K+ miles on them."
RI_A6 made the following further comments on a 2nd email exchange:
"You can purchase RLI Biosyn here:
http://www.renewablelube.com/order.htm
Purchase it by the gallon for price savings. It takes about 1 1/2 gallon (6 quarts) for 3.2L oil change. You'll want to purchase the Bio-Plus Injector Cleaner Gas Conditioner and the Bio-Synthetic Super High Performance SAE 5W40 HD
I'd purchase one of the 12 oz bottles of the Injector cleaner, and then a One Gallon bottle for refills. Be careful to wash off any that gets on your hands. It's a very strong chemical."
and "Whenever possible, use Shell V-Power 91 octane exclusively. It has additives specifically designed for Direct Injection. It won't solve the problem, but it will help a bit. In conjunction with Biosyn and BioPlus, Shell V-Power will make a difference."
Hope this helps others looking into the issue.
-A
08-16-2009, 11:12 AM
#38
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Technical info on RLI Biosyn and how it works to slow carbon deposit build-up
From RI_A6 email exchanges and posted with his permission. Info also sent to Griffin Motorwerkes in Berkeley for their analysis.
"The problems have to do with the design of all direct injected engines, particularly with the audi/vw design, and oil that cannot withstand the design. The oil was designed based on work that I contracted Terry Dyson to perform in analysis and formulation. After early oil analysis of mine and other engines, it was clear to Terry (who is an Independent Professional Tribologist) that the Audi engines were quite literally destroying the "approved" oils through chemical fuel dilution. This fuel dilution breaks down the oil, reduces it's viscosity, allows even more oil to pass by the rings, and be recycled through the PVC system, onto the back of the intake valves. There it adheres and bakes in, forming carbonaceous deposits.
Terry Dyson, developed a theory of forumlation for an oil that would better withstand fuel dilution, mitigate the impact of fuel dilution in DI engines, and continuously clean. We tested some of the theories, found them to be correct, and I paid for him to work with formulator to have the oil produced. Very few companies in the world have the necessary technology to formulate an oil like this. Terry chose Renewable Lubricants, a home-grown Bio-synthetic lubricant company with some incredible patented technology. Terry worked directly with Bil Garmier, the owner of RLI, to develop what is now RLI Bio-Synthetic Super High Performance SAE 5W40 HD oil. Once it was formulated I tested it in my engine with incredibly good results. Its shows 50% reduced wear in these engines, reduced fuel dilution, and much longer oil life. Quite a few of us run it in our engines for 10K miles without a change, which for some has included many, many track events.
I now hold data base of Audi oil analysis on the RS4 and a few other engines, that contains 103 oil samples from 25 different engines, from 600 miles on the engine to nearly 60K miles. I have data on the following oils used in these engines, considered to be some of the best in the world:
Amsoil 5W40
Castrol Syntec 5W-40
Castrol TXT 505 5w40
Elf Excellium LDX 5W-40
Factory Oil
Fuchs Titan GT1 5W30
Lubro-Moly Vollsynthese 5w40
Mobil 1 0W-40
Motul 300V 5W-40
Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40
Motul 8100 X-lite 0W30
Motul Xcess 5W-40
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40
RLI Biosyn 5W-40
Rotella T CJ4 10W-30
The oil that we formulated consistently beats all of the other oils, and has not shown to cause accelerated deposit formation in the engine. This has been proven through oil analysis and in the case of several owners through intake manifold removal and inspection.
If your guy truly knows anything about oil, then he would recognize this one as extremely stout. It has the characteristics of a racing oil.
Here are some links to technical information about the oil and presentations made at some significant conferences:
http://teraspeed.com/RLI/Introductio...hnology%20.pdf
http://teraspeed.com/RLI/STLE%20Philadelphia.pdf
http://teraspeed.com/RLI/STLE%20Cleveland.pdf
Here's a lab analysis of a Virgin RLI BioSyn sample compared to other oils. However, much of the difference cannot be seen in an oil analysis. If he's interested, the oil uses stabilized bio-esters from High Oleic Base Stock (HOBS) in a mixture with high quality PAO base stock an extremely stiff ZDDP and copper/antimony additive package
Oil VOA RLI Biosyn 5W-40 Elf Excellium LDX 5W-40 Motul 8100 E-tech 0W40 Amsoil Euro 5W40 Mobil 1 0W-40 Castrol Syntec 5W-40
Iron 3 3 3 1 0 1
Copper 261 0 0 0 1 0
Tin 0 0 0 0 3 0
Lead 1 0 1 0 0 0
Chromium 0 0 0 0 0 0
Nickel 0 1 1 0 0 0
Aluminium 1 1 1 1 2 0
Titanium 0 0 0 0 4 0
Silver 0 0 0 0 0 0
Calcium 2533 1098 1194 1440 2930 1053
Magnesium 13 977 1077 12 26 926
Zinc 1492 1032 1088 804 1074 918
Phosphorus 1527 980 980 701 956 786
Barium 6 5 5 0
0
Molybdenum 1 0 1 0 71 2
Silicon 492 3 10 4
4
Sodium 5 13 14 3 6 5
Boron 7 4 1 50 3 1
Potassium 0 0 0 0 188 0
Vanadium 0 0 0 0 1 0
Viscosity 40C cSt 91.3 83.8 72
Viscosity 100C cSt 16.1 13.6 11.8 13.58 13.9
TAN 1.87 1.51 1.61
Flashpoint 395 420 430
405
Oxidation 154 8 85
Nitration 5 7 7
Water (KF - ppm) 2022 937 1165
TBN 10.3 9.6 10.1 7.52 12.5
Fuel 0.308 214 208
Soot 0.02 0 0
Glycol/Coolant 0 0.36 0
Viscosity Index 189 167 160
Sulfate 116 13 66 "
Chart on some of the wear data he has from oil analysis available on request. Send me a note and I'll email. Biosyn consistently performs with the lowest wear.
-A
"The problems have to do with the design of all direct injected engines, particularly with the audi/vw design, and oil that cannot withstand the design. The oil was designed based on work that I contracted Terry Dyson to perform in analysis and formulation. After early oil analysis of mine and other engines, it was clear to Terry (who is an Independent Professional Tribologist) that the Audi engines were quite literally destroying the "approved" oils through chemical fuel dilution. This fuel dilution breaks down the oil, reduces it's viscosity, allows even more oil to pass by the rings, and be recycled through the PVC system, onto the back of the intake valves. There it adheres and bakes in, forming carbonaceous deposits.
Terry Dyson, developed a theory of forumlation for an oil that would better withstand fuel dilution, mitigate the impact of fuel dilution in DI engines, and continuously clean. We tested some of the theories, found them to be correct, and I paid for him to work with formulator to have the oil produced. Very few companies in the world have the necessary technology to formulate an oil like this. Terry chose Renewable Lubricants, a home-grown Bio-synthetic lubricant company with some incredible patented technology. Terry worked directly with Bil Garmier, the owner of RLI, to develop what is now RLI Bio-Synthetic Super High Performance SAE 5W40 HD oil. Once it was formulated I tested it in my engine with incredibly good results. Its shows 50% reduced wear in these engines, reduced fuel dilution, and much longer oil life. Quite a few of us run it in our engines for 10K miles without a change, which for some has included many, many track events.
I now hold data base of Audi oil analysis on the RS4 and a few other engines, that contains 103 oil samples from 25 different engines, from 600 miles on the engine to nearly 60K miles. I have data on the following oils used in these engines, considered to be some of the best in the world:
Amsoil 5W40
Castrol Syntec 5W-40
Castrol TXT 505 5w40
Elf Excellium LDX 5W-40
Factory Oil
Fuchs Titan GT1 5W30
Lubro-Moly Vollsynthese 5w40
Mobil 1 0W-40
Motul 300V 5W-40
Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40
Motul 8100 X-lite 0W30
Motul Xcess 5W-40
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40
RLI Biosyn 5W-40
Rotella T CJ4 10W-30
The oil that we formulated consistently beats all of the other oils, and has not shown to cause accelerated deposit formation in the engine. This has been proven through oil analysis and in the case of several owners through intake manifold removal and inspection.
If your guy truly knows anything about oil, then he would recognize this one as extremely stout. It has the characteristics of a racing oil.
Here are some links to technical information about the oil and presentations made at some significant conferences:
http://teraspeed.com/RLI/Introductio...hnology%20.pdf
http://teraspeed.com/RLI/STLE%20Philadelphia.pdf
http://teraspeed.com/RLI/STLE%20Cleveland.pdf
Here's a lab analysis of a Virgin RLI BioSyn sample compared to other oils. However, much of the difference cannot be seen in an oil analysis. If he's interested, the oil uses stabilized bio-esters from High Oleic Base Stock (HOBS) in a mixture with high quality PAO base stock an extremely stiff ZDDP and copper/antimony additive package
Oil VOA RLI Biosyn 5W-40 Elf Excellium LDX 5W-40 Motul 8100 E-tech 0W40 Amsoil Euro 5W40 Mobil 1 0W-40 Castrol Syntec 5W-40
Iron 3 3 3 1 0 1
Copper 261 0 0 0 1 0
Tin 0 0 0 0 3 0
Lead 1 0 1 0 0 0
Chromium 0 0 0 0 0 0
Nickel 0 1 1 0 0 0
Aluminium 1 1 1 1 2 0
Titanium 0 0 0 0 4 0
Silver 0 0 0 0 0 0
Calcium 2533 1098 1194 1440 2930 1053
Magnesium 13 977 1077 12 26 926
Zinc 1492 1032 1088 804 1074 918
Phosphorus 1527 980 980 701 956 786
Barium 6 5 5 0
0
Molybdenum 1 0 1 0 71 2
Silicon 492 3 10 4
4
Sodium 5 13 14 3 6 5
Boron 7 4 1 50 3 1
Potassium 0 0 0 0 188 0
Vanadium 0 0 0 0 1 0
Viscosity 40C cSt 91.3 83.8 72
Viscosity 100C cSt 16.1 13.6 11.8 13.58 13.9
TAN 1.87 1.51 1.61
Flashpoint 395 420 430
405
Oxidation 154 8 85
Nitration 5 7 7
Water (KF - ppm) 2022 937 1165
TBN 10.3 9.6 10.1 7.52 12.5
Fuel 0.308 214 208
Soot 0.02 0 0
Glycol/Coolant 0 0.36 0
Viscosity Index 189 167 160
Sulfate 116 13 66 "
Chart on some of the wear data he has from oil analysis available on request. Send me a note and I'll email. Biosyn consistently performs with the lowest wear.
-A
11-02-2015, 10:55 AM
#39
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Not sure where to start, have a 2008 A6 Quattro, 3.2L FSI, the CEL came on about 2 months ago, don't drive it much, it's been running good when driven, however, last night went to the store, came out to leave, the car would not start, the EPC light came on. Waited a bit, tried to start several times after that, but still nothing, everything came on inside the car, lights, radio, etc, it just wouldn't start. Had to have it towed, been looking things up, sounds like it could be the camshaft position sensor. What do you all think?
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