MP4.2+6.0

There are at least two replies in the thread that I think may not reflect what ZF says about fluid service. While I'm one who does do fluid service--as deep as anybody--arguably ZF says it is "lifetime" for regular use. Here specifically are their words (bolded by me) back to the source document and specific to the D3 transmission:
The above document is what I regard as their most definitive technical service document. On the other hand, it is indeed this same document they previously altered for the five speed (when there was no six or greater speed) and then buried the change. It used to say the service interval was what the qualifier now says is for severe duty only.


Next, here is a ZF source document that introduces confusion. It says,
Notice the wording of the second ZF document is pretty similar to the first, except they dropped the severe duty reference. It's subtle, but you could argue that is implicit in the text, especially once you have seen the arguably longer version quoted from the first ZF document above. Or, it could be using the language before the ex-post change they did on the 5 speed, and this language never caught up. BTW, the document is a good reference source on tranny fluid changes generally.


Finally, here is a document that is dressed up like a technical document, but in context I think is really a marketing oriented pitch document for why to buy their fluid. It is also on the North America portion of the ZF site if you look at the url carefully, while the other two are on the English side of the worldwide/corporate site. I can't paste the text in here because it is an image format, but basically it is making a pitch for fluid changes beyond 100,000km, and is clearly hawking their fluids.
FWIW, while there appear to be pretty arguable inconsistencies here, I think the first link is probably their official current position, and I know the document back a good ten years (and what it used to say/how it changed, including that it clearly used to say 5 speed fluid had regular change interval recommendations in all cases). I do change the fluids though, and even if the first document is the official policy I'll put my heavy start-stop congested metro suburban driving cycles, W12 load and heat, and extended hot weather runs at times closer to the severe duty category anyway. If I were literally the most common original D3 owner or current D4 owner profile (senior citizen, male, Florida coast retiree--the A8's single biggest market) for new ones who drives it to Bingo or church or what ever, maybe not.

allenst

possible causes of herks-and-jerks when taking of from stand still
or
when coasting and removing foot from gas and getting and little herky-jerky feeling.
not a big one and not all the time.
mostly just when starting but even more when hit the pedal then take foot off to coast.

maybe just and oil change ! OR the whole quattro is "blowing up" each outting

allenst

ZF doesnt appear to be in the business of "set-it-and-forget-it", if they once were.
they have a lot of products for sale now so I can see how 'their position' may have changed over a decade.

so if you got the time, money, knowhow or service people = no real harm in changing the kit given no tran issues.

or if you got slippage, just pull pan off and inspect for metal debris. if you got metal debris then don't change anything.
instead get ready for an $8000 repair or unloading the vehicle

MP4.2+6.0

For what it's worth, I put a bunch of time into that write up, and to be careful to get direct from authoritative source information out there instead of casual rehashes that don't give people the source and first person info to judge for themselves. I think your summary really isn't particularly right and seems kind of dismissive/cursory/conclusionary. Might be what more than a few people do, but that is different than looking at the issues objectively. I stand by what I wrote and the ZF information I provided at its source and a factual first person recounting of history of ZF's changes involving the 5 speed, not by your conclusions from it. Other readers can find my post below directly and get what ever value out of it they find from ZF and related source material and contexts.

For the repair conclusion, also not right. First, closer to about $6K for a ZF authorized rebuild including R&R from a good indy shop. Dealer would make little sense w/ cars age, and rebuilts come from ZF anyway. Besides that, available info suggests innards ARE robust and so you are unlikely to find "metal debris." Stereotypically that is 5 speed piece of junk D2/C5 tranny, not the six speed. Instead, issues are more likely to be with wear on steel to steel parts that are critical for controlled fluid bleed, various things with the (removable) valve body assembly, and maybe the torque converter if it isn't the control solenoid. You won't find any of those as "metal debris" in the pan, and at altitude the tranny mechanics and control electronics are regarded by most as quite reliable. Even more so by older Audi norms for either a lot of three speed era or the five speeds. Also not subject to a lot of the bad programming complaints of the 8 and 9 speeds. As I note earlier, a read of my responses to other tranny posts even in past few weeks would connect the dots on various of the ZF tranny watch areas and (sometimes) relationship to fluids--including once again source information from one of the best credentialed ZF authorized places in the U.S.

mishar

That's what you always get if you ask at an opened forum. Than it's up to you to find the best answer. The only way I see is to be regular and figure out who is who. "Titles" might help but no warranties. Emotions definitely do not help. Loving or hating rebellion, short and grumpy, or long and documented answers can lead to a wrong conclusion. Counting "ballots" too.

N_Jay

Interesting.
I must not have found that first document when I was doing my search.
I ended my search with a conversation with ZF Technical Support.
I forget whether he said, or just implied, that the "Lifetime" rating was by Audi (and others) and was never ZF's recommendation.

allenst

read a lot from Service Managers saying it's lifetime....
but is it ? what is lifetime ? 8 years ? 12 years ?
do they say lifetime knowing a big juicy repair is in the works ?
some transmissions fail, so the wear tear, driving conditions make sense.
yet Service people at dealerships are being quoted as saying atf is lifetime.

audipages.com says atf oil change is the most important service you can do
metal wears
then the filter blocks
then the hydraulic pump cativates
and downhill from there

interesting do, or dont, service question

allenst

audipages.com
about the drivetrain 'thump'
and the high pitched squeal at cold start !
in relation to the dangers of NOT changing atf oil
and the immediate dangers of continuing to drive your vehicle

mishar

Only non conspiracy theory here is that Audi statistics show that changing ATF won't influence gearbox life. Change it or not it will last the same. Than, ZF may not like this.

allenst

what do you think of these comments from audipages ?
what is the squeal he refers to ? and the thump at 65km ?

Here is the procedure to change the fluid and filter on the A8. The pan does not have to be dropped if you follow the procedure and get the right tools.

Symptoms of Thump
Prior to the transmission squealing, you will most likely notice a change in the transmission operation. This can happen for months before the noise.

The transmission produces a "thump" in the drive train, normally most noticeable on flat ground when at very low throttle positions in 5th gear (around 65 MPH). Once the driver lifts off the gas for traffic, the engine RPM's lower approximately 500-1000 RPM, followed by an increase in RPM, causing the transmission to "thump" the drive train.

Essentially, the torque converter is dropping out of lock out, then picking up again. It will continue to do this two or three times if the gas is not pressed after lifting.

If your car starts experiencing this, have the transmission serviced as above IMMEDIATELY!

The following is a very informative post from Dommi3 of Audiworld. He had all of the above symptoms and thought he had to have his transmission replaced. Please read carefully. Have the service completed if you have any of the symptoms.