Does altitude affect Turbo vehicles VS N/A vehicles debate.
05-30-2002, 06:58 AM
#41
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yes, but in turbo engine there will be more air in the chamber hence more O2
Isn't that the whole point of the Turbo? To get more air into the same volume, but it's not really air they are after it's O2 in the air.
05-30-2002, 07:50 AM
#42
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Yes...they need to allow higher boost for compensation, so...
...whether or not the S4 will suffer HP losses at those altitudes is dependent upon how much of a boost ceiling they put on there. Based upon some of the timeslips we've seen and anecdotal reports, I suspect that the system isn't set up such that it's got enough boost for 100%, but this is just a guess.
I can't remember exactly why the added boost compensates for the lower oxygen, but it does; I've read this from several reliable sources. Go to a few of the better search engines, like google.com, northernlight.com, or metacrawler.com and search for "turbo altitude", see what you find...there's a lot of info out there.
I can't remember exactly why the added boost compensates for the lower oxygen, but it does; I've read this from several reliable sources. Go to a few of the better search engines, like google.com, northernlight.com, or metacrawler.com and search for "turbo altitude", see what you find...there's a lot of info out there.
05-30-2002, 09:04 AM
#43
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Actually, I'd say if all things stay equal (ie the ECU doesn't increase boost)
the turbo car will be hurt more due to the higher IAT charge of compressing thin air. I don't think chipped car's have a 'boost ceiling' since they're already running near maximum boost allowed, so in that case, I think you're SOL expecting chipped power in the mountains, etc...
05-30-2002, 09:59 AM
#44
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Your in Denial
Factual evidence only applies if you believe it or not, but your in denial. If albert einstein himself told you that you are less immune if your turbocharged, you'll probably say something like "yea, but I'll own your little yugo in the 1/4."
The Fact remains that a turbocharged car is more immune to altitude due to the ability to compensate for lack of incoming air. I am not sure how the S4 are tuned to run with altitude with the chips available in the market. But none the less they are less immune to altitude. Myself and others on the A4 forums have witnessed this also.
A group of 5-7 of us went to LACR (2900)ft elevation and ran the EXACT same times we did at Carlsbad (200)ft elevation. Minus Teddy, his shifting change because of a short shifter and he got a better 60ft, which improved his times by .2 of a sec. Oh, and CMH who has an upgraded T28 ran an almost identical times at LACR and Carlsbad. You pat with your 1/2 a sec difference seem to be the only oddball of the group. You take your times and automatically assume that your theory is true because of 1 event. You should race at LACR more often and goto Carlsbad, you might be astonished with the results. Then you will realize FACT!
Im sure a smart boy like you (If you were really smart, you'd still be at pepperdine) Can take all the replies and put 1+1 together to get a solution. But your still denying common sense which contributes to the majority of the fact in real life situations.
Refer up to my 2nd paragraph and re-read, note: "More-Immune" is the key word.
You comment in a previous thread, "Turbo cars become NA Cars at altitude" is blatant and uneducated.
For some reason you seem to think little of the Supra owners, maybe its beacuse they speak the truth? I guess you never ran into a T66 Supra before, try racing one of those on the highway
Denial is a horrible mind disease, it can hurt you in many imaginable ways. Lets just hope it doesnt spread to ignorance, your too bright for that! :-)
The Fact remains that a turbocharged car is more immune to altitude due to the ability to compensate for lack of incoming air. I am not sure how the S4 are tuned to run with altitude with the chips available in the market. But none the less they are less immune to altitude. Myself and others on the A4 forums have witnessed this also.
A group of 5-7 of us went to LACR (2900)ft elevation and ran the EXACT same times we did at Carlsbad (200)ft elevation. Minus Teddy, his shifting change because of a short shifter and he got a better 60ft, which improved his times by .2 of a sec. Oh, and CMH who has an upgraded T28 ran an almost identical times at LACR and Carlsbad. You pat with your 1/2 a sec difference seem to be the only oddball of the group. You take your times and automatically assume that your theory is true because of 1 event. You should race at LACR more often and goto Carlsbad, you might be astonished with the results. Then you will realize FACT!
Im sure a smart boy like you (If you were really smart, you'd still be at pepperdine) Can take all the replies and put 1+1 together to get a solution. But your still denying common sense which contributes to the majority of the fact in real life situations.
Refer up to my 2nd paragraph and re-read, note: "More-Immune" is the key word.
You comment in a previous thread, "Turbo cars become NA Cars at altitude" is blatant and uneducated.
For some reason you seem to think little of the Supra owners, maybe its beacuse they speak the truth? I guess you never ran into a T66 Supra before, try racing one of those on the highway
Denial is a horrible mind disease, it can hurt you in many imaginable ways. Lets just hope it doesnt spread to ignorance, your too bright for that! :-)
05-30-2002, 10:20 AM
#46
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You're arguing your own statement, might want to correct it...
"The Fact remains that a turbocharged car is less immune to altitude due to the ability to compensate for lack of incoming air."
It would be "more" immune, if that is your argument...
and if Pat is making an argument from a stand point if all things are equal, (ie the boost doesn't increase, which on a chipped car, it wont! MTM tried this, and overspun the turbos in high altitude cars) you will sustain MORE loss than an NA motor due to compressing thin air(more heat = lower hp, more lag). Stock, it might compensate a bit, but it will more than likely not be able to run 100% of its capability. (Maybe 95% only because compressing of thinner air, will always yield higher IATs) - maybe someone who lives in these high altitude areas can tell us what their boost guages show at altitude, and when they goto a more civil elevation ;-)
I can't speak for the K04 cars, or even the T28 cars - I am sure they have a little head room, but if you're running a car near its limits at sea level, and go into the mountains - your car takes a huge hit, also... Its plain and simple, you can not argue it.
It would be "more" immune, if that is your argument...
and if Pat is making an argument from a stand point if all things are equal, (ie the boost doesn't increase, which on a chipped car, it wont! MTM tried this, and overspun the turbos in high altitude cars) you will sustain MORE loss than an NA motor due to compressing thin air(more heat = lower hp, more lag). Stock, it might compensate a bit, but it will more than likely not be able to run 100% of its capability. (Maybe 95% only because compressing of thinner air, will always yield higher IATs) - maybe someone who lives in these high altitude areas can tell us what their boost guages show at altitude, and when they goto a more civil elevation ;-)
I can't speak for the K04 cars, or even the T28 cars - I am sure they have a little head room, but if you're running a car near its limits at sea level, and go into the mountains - your car takes a huge hit, also... Its plain and simple, you can not argue it.
05-30-2002, 12:23 PM
#49
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Not sure how you could have misquoted me that bad.
I'm assuming that it's your elementary understanding of English and not your twisted mind trying to save face.
Come back when you have actual real world experience with tweaking cars at altitude. For example: I've dyno tuned several different turbo cars and several difference NA cars... guess what, they both picked up a similar amount of power when their owners took them from Bako back to L.A. and the coast. Just because you blindly read and worship supra owners on their internet forum doesn't make them right (except in your head). It just makes you a pathetic follower and still only able to understand things told to you by uninformed wannabe's.
Your misinformation about my school life doesn't make sense either. If you'd like to get edjucated on both topics I'd be happy to verbally beat it into your head tonight at KK since you haven't picked up from the well-informed in this thread.
Come back when you have actual real world experience with tweaking cars at altitude. For example: I've dyno tuned several different turbo cars and several difference NA cars... guess what, they both picked up a similar amount of power when their owners took them from Bako back to L.A. and the coast. Just because you blindly read and worship supra owners on their internet forum doesn't make them right (except in your head). It just makes you a pathetic follower and still only able to understand things told to you by uninformed wannabe's.
Your misinformation about my school life doesn't make sense either. If you'd like to get edjucated on both topics I'd be happy to verbally beat it into your head tonight at KK since you haven't picked up from the well-informed in this thread.
05-30-2002, 12:42 PM
#50
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bla bla bla, this debate is over.. get over it.
I've seen the same turbo car dyno at altitude and at near sea level, both with almost identical numbers. Only difference is the power curve, but peak power is almost identical.
Apparently, you listen to no one but yourself, so its kinda useless to talk some sense into you. I dont like the Supra owners anymore than I like the Civic crowd. I just respect some of them, because some are truely fast cars. I've meet a lot of the supra owners during last years 2nd Annual GT sports car cruise. I also meet some twin turbo 300ZX, and skyline GTR owners. The talk of altitude was brought up many times since angeles crest is a mountain. They all agreed that turbos are not heavily weighted down due to altitude, NA cars however are.
I dont know how you somehow think that Turbonetics are a bunch of idiots, and innovative turbo is any better. Turbonetic cars hold some of the worlds record in drag racing, both land and sea. Why dont you give them a call and tell them how turbos become NA cars at altitude, and listen to them laugh at you. Tell them you dyno cars in bako and LA, and listen to them hang up on ya :-)
Btw, KK will be at Van nuys tonight. We'll get everyone involved in this debate.
Apparently, you listen to no one but yourself, so its kinda useless to talk some sense into you. I dont like the Supra owners anymore than I like the Civic crowd. I just respect some of them, because some are truely fast cars. I've meet a lot of the supra owners during last years 2nd Annual GT sports car cruise. I also meet some twin turbo 300ZX, and skyline GTR owners. The talk of altitude was brought up many times since angeles crest is a mountain. They all agreed that turbos are not heavily weighted down due to altitude, NA cars however are.
I dont know how you somehow think that Turbonetics are a bunch of idiots, and innovative turbo is any better. Turbonetic cars hold some of the worlds record in drag racing, both land and sea. Why dont you give them a call and tell them how turbos become NA cars at altitude, and listen to them laugh at you. Tell them you dyno cars in bako and LA, and listen to them hang up on ya :-)
Btw, KK will be at Van nuys tonight. We'll get everyone involved in this debate.