Intake, MAF, tubes hose for stage 3
11-22-2011, 09:32 AM
#1
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
Intake, MAF, tubes hose for stage 3
Preparing 'engine out' session with upgrade to K04 and 'home brew' stage 3.
Currently stage 2 (piggies/gutted pre cat, main cat delete)
Tune calls for 60lb injectors and 85mm Hitachi.
a) what do I need on the intake side to convert to 85mm Hitachi?
- Hitachi sensor itself (part number, source, donor car)?
- MAF housing (billet, PVC ghetto, other donor car, else?)
- can stock air box be used? Connects to MAF? If not, what is needed.
- accordion tube between MAF and intake y pipe?
- do I need to change the intake y pipe?
b) Does the tubing between turbo out and throttle body need upgrade (must/recommended/no)?
c) ditto throttle body and boot (have silicone TB boot)
d) DV are Forge007, 'middle' spring.
e) Stern mounts standing by
f) Vast stage 2 clutch
g) complete timing belt job (pump, pulleys, etc.)
e) what else while the engine is out?
Currently stage 2 (piggies/gutted pre cat, main cat delete)
Tune calls for 60lb injectors and 85mm Hitachi.
a) what do I need on the intake side to convert to 85mm Hitachi?
- Hitachi sensor itself (part number, source, donor car)?
- MAF housing (billet, PVC ghetto, other donor car, else?)
- can stock air box be used? Connects to MAF? If not, what is needed.
- accordion tube between MAF and intake y pipe?
- do I need to change the intake y pipe?
b) Does the tubing between turbo out and throttle body need upgrade (must/recommended/no)?
c) ditto throttle body and boot (have silicone TB boot)
d) DV are Forge007, 'middle' spring.
e) Stern mounts standing by
f) Vast stage 2 clutch
g) complete timing belt job (pump, pulleys, etc.)
e) what else while the engine is out?
11-27-2011, 07:09 AM
#2
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Hitachi sensors (06C 133 471A) can be found on any 2001 or newer S4. H, J, L, M, T, AA-Box ECUs. T-box is interchangeable with M-Box (6MT) and AA-Boxes can be swapped with L-boxes (tip). I think more may be interchangeable with VAG-COM tweaks, but I'm not familiar with them.
If it were me, I would go billet housing ( http://www.034motorsport.com/034efi-...d-p-19891.html ) with either the stock airbox and a darintake mod. The accordion hose from an RS4 can be used but there are many other options...( http://www.034motorsport.com/engine-...d-p-19534.html )
The Y-pipe doesn't need to be changed on a k04 setup, IMO. If you were running something like 605s, 650s, GTs or 770s, I would say invest in an RS4 pipe or something custom. It generally will only yield a tiny bit of high end.
You will need K04 inlet tubes from the turbos to the bi-pipes. The bi-pipes do not necessarily need to be upgraded, especially since you have the TBB taken care of.
When I pull my engine I will be fabricating a catch can system and replacing the spider hose assembly at the rear of the engine. Over time, as with any PCV system, you get build up in the hoses that cause leaks elsewhere and often in hard to reach places. I think this is one of the most overlooked and consequently one of the most important aspects of building a stgIII s4.
-Consider a metal clutch slave cylinder and SS lines
-Drain and refill the tranny and differential, looking for metal sediments (signs of wear)
-Stern mounts are a +, consider snub mount, transmission mounts, power ring and bushing kit for rear, DTS bar and differential carrier mounts.
-Didn't see a mention of any type of intercooler upgrade (all personal preference and budget decisions)
That should cover the basics! I normally wouldn't be this winded in a response, especially to a few questions that could easily be answered with about 5 minutes of even Google search time...but, I hope it helped a little!
Good luck with the build! It's terribly difficult to move slow and think everything out knowing you'll be going so damn fast soon, but that's the most important part!
If it were me, I would go billet housing ( http://www.034motorsport.com/034efi-...d-p-19891.html ) with either the stock airbox and a darintake mod. The accordion hose from an RS4 can be used but there are many other options...( http://www.034motorsport.com/engine-...d-p-19534.html )
The Y-pipe doesn't need to be changed on a k04 setup, IMO. If you were running something like 605s, 650s, GTs or 770s, I would say invest in an RS4 pipe or something custom. It generally will only yield a tiny bit of high end.
You will need K04 inlet tubes from the turbos to the bi-pipes. The bi-pipes do not necessarily need to be upgraded, especially since you have the TBB taken care of.
When I pull my engine I will be fabricating a catch can system and replacing the spider hose assembly at the rear of the engine. Over time, as with any PCV system, you get build up in the hoses that cause leaks elsewhere and often in hard to reach places. I think this is one of the most overlooked and consequently one of the most important aspects of building a stgIII s4.
-Consider a metal clutch slave cylinder and SS lines
-Drain and refill the tranny and differential, looking for metal sediments (signs of wear)
-Stern mounts are a +, consider snub mount, transmission mounts, power ring and bushing kit for rear, DTS bar and differential carrier mounts.
-Didn't see a mention of any type of intercooler upgrade (all personal preference and budget decisions)
That should cover the basics! I normally wouldn't be this winded in a response, especially to a few questions that could easily be answered with about 5 minutes of even Google search time...but, I hope it helped a little!
Good luck with the build! It's terribly difficult to move slow and think everything out knowing you'll be going so damn fast soon, but that's the most important part!
11-27-2011, 07:40 AM
#3
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
MDJ, thanks a bunch for the comprehensive answer!
I start looking up stuff; likely be back here with questions.
Already: DIY, write up on the PCV elimination? I am sure I already catch some oil in my system with the 20+ psi I am currently running.
Have a set of good K03 on hand now and ready to do the same 'hybrid' mod I did (with very good results IMO pushing 185 g/sec on my 1.8T AEB on Giac PC16 with injectors, 2.8 bar). But looking at the hot side of those babies (they look even smaller than the 1.8T AEB K03), its scary (EGT reaching valve melting point level?). If I can't source K04 cores: should I worry? Look for higher flow manifolds to get the exhaust out quicker?
More later.
I start looking up stuff; likely be back here with questions.
Already: DIY, write up on the PCV elimination? I am sure I already catch some oil in my system with the 20+ psi I am currently running.
Have a set of good K03 on hand now and ready to do the same 'hybrid' mod I did (with very good results IMO pushing 185 g/sec on my 1.8T AEB on Giac PC16 with injectors, 2.8 bar). But looking at the hot side of those babies (they look even smaller than the 1.8T AEB K03), its scary (EGT reaching valve melting point level?). If I can't source K04 cores: should I worry? Look for higher flow manifolds to get the exhaust out quicker?
More later.
11-27-2011, 07:48 AM
#4
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Thread Starter
What does MY car have (stock)? 2002 Allroad 2.7T ECU 4Z7 907 551 L
Hitachi or Bosch?
Diameter?
Or does "85mm Hitachi MAF" in the tune description means: get larger 85mm housing and stick your stock (Hitachi) MAF element in?
11-27-2011, 08:22 AM
#5
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Bookmark this site, it's a great resource: http://www.audidiy.com/b5s4.php
Many of the DIY articles linked in that website redirect you right back to Audiworld DIY articles, so make sure to search this site, too.
Oil Catch can DIY: https://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng.html
As far as rebuilding your k03s...I can see the upside of doing this, as you would have quick spooling with the k03 exhaust side...however, for the price you're going to pay for the compressor side and potentially needing a new CHRA, I would consider Frankenturbos. ( http://www.frankenturbo.com/new/F4BT.html ) $1800 a set and they just came out with manifolds yielding a decent top end but sacrificing a bit of low end (obviously better if you're going to be keeping the engine internals stock for the time being). Close to K03 spool times and better than K04 top end.
Your Allroad, being a 2002 will have the Hitachi MAF at 73mm. You will need to purchase an 85mm MAF and a billet or otherwise housing. The part number I posted is for the stock 73mm MAF.
The 73mm Hitachi MAF yields 96mph velocity @ 220 g/sec
Going with 85mm MAF sensors and housings, you're looking at something closer to 160mph and a true airmass of somewhere around 500 g/sec. AWE and ASP both sell very reliable Hitachi 85mm MAF sensors yielding the above specifications.
Many of the DIY articles linked in that website redirect you right back to Audiworld DIY articles, so make sure to search this site, too.
Oil Catch can DIY: https://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng.html
As far as rebuilding your k03s...I can see the upside of doing this, as you would have quick spooling with the k03 exhaust side...however, for the price you're going to pay for the compressor side and potentially needing a new CHRA, I would consider Frankenturbos. ( http://www.frankenturbo.com/new/F4BT.html ) $1800 a set and they just came out with manifolds yielding a decent top end but sacrificing a bit of low end (obviously better if you're going to be keeping the engine internals stock for the time being). Close to K03 spool times and better than K04 top end.
Your Allroad, being a 2002 will have the Hitachi MAF at 73mm. You will need to purchase an 85mm MAF and a billet or otherwise housing. The part number I posted is for the stock 73mm MAF.
The 73mm Hitachi MAF yields 96mph velocity @ 220 g/sec
Going with 85mm MAF sensors and housings, you're looking at something closer to 160mph and a true airmass of somewhere around 500 g/sec. AWE and ASP both sell very reliable Hitachi 85mm MAF sensors yielding the above specifications.
11-27-2011, 08:43 AM
#6
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
BTW: yes, Frankenturbo is GREAT bang for the buck (1.8T as well as 2.7T) if you need to buy/pay for turbo. Clearly my recommendation for those NOT looking for the high HP at gazillion rpm, NO low/mid range power whatsoever setups (drove a T3T4 Garrett 57trim with BT Unitronics 1.8T yesterday. IMO (only): pretty much useless, but fun beyond 4.5k rpm (where I only spent very little time).
11-27-2011, 08:45 AM
#7
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
Your Allroad, being a 2002 will have the Hitachi MAF at 73mm. You will need to purchase an 85mm MAF and a billet or otherwise housing. The part number I posted is for the stock 73mm MAF.
The 73mm Hitachi MAF yields 96mph velocity @ 220 g/sec
Going with 85mm MAF sensors and housings, you're looking at something closer to 160mph and a true airmass of somewhere around 500 g/sec. AWE and ASP both sell very reliable Hitachi 85mm MAF sensors yielding the above specifications.
The 73mm Hitachi MAF yields 96mph velocity @ 220 g/sec
Going with 85mm MAF sensors and housings, you're looking at something closer to 160mph and a true airmass of somewhere around 500 g/sec. AWE and ASP both sell very reliable Hitachi 85mm MAF sensors yielding the above specifications.
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11-27-2011, 08:57 AM
#8
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
Comments below within your text:
-Consider a metal clutch slave cylinder and SS lines
==> saw those. What is the expected benefit?
-Drain and refill the tranny and differential, looking for metal sediments (signs of wear)
==> Assume can be done any time; no need to wait for 'engine out', or?
-Stern mounts are a +, consider snub mount, transmission mounts
==> trans and snub are already in, engine mounts seemed a bit more elaborate and did not do back then (but are standing by for 'engine out'
- power ring and bushing kit for rear
==> have not heard about that. Reason for change/upgrade? Benefit?
- DTS bar and differential carrier mounts.
==> not sure about 'bang for the buck', so currently further down the priority list
-Didn't see a mention of any type of intercooler upgrade (all personal preference and budget decisions):
==> Looked at some SMIC upgrade options. Unclear about the performance of the low cost version (SRC racing or so), 'name brand' too costly. Would like to stay with SMIC (looks), but if bang for buck is not there, may go FMIC (1.8T FMIC install worked well, performing well, very good bang for buck ($300 or so).
==> saw those. What is the expected benefit?
-Drain and refill the tranny and differential, looking for metal sediments (signs of wear)
==> Assume can be done any time; no need to wait for 'engine out', or?
-Stern mounts are a +, consider snub mount, transmission mounts
==> trans and snub are already in, engine mounts seemed a bit more elaborate and did not do back then (but are standing by for 'engine out'
- power ring and bushing kit for rear
==> have not heard about that. Reason for change/upgrade? Benefit?
- DTS bar and differential carrier mounts.
==> not sure about 'bang for the buck', so currently further down the priority list
-Didn't see a mention of any type of intercooler upgrade (all personal preference and budget decisions):
==> Looked at some SMIC upgrade options. Unclear about the performance of the low cost version (SRC racing or so), 'name brand' too costly. Would like to stay with SMIC (looks), but if bang for buck is not there, may go FMIC (1.8T FMIC install worked well, performing well, very good bang for buck ($300 or so).
11-27-2011, 10:52 AM
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With a metal clutch slave and SS lines, you will have much better pedal feel, not to mention the plastic OEM slaves tend to break when removing the engine (not always, but if it does, this is a better, long lasting unit to replace it).
There is no need to wait for the engine to be out in order to service the transmission and/or differential. It's very straight forward with the engine in, however much more accessible with the engine/transmission out. As for the differential (more difficult of the two, considering space and needing 2 sets of hands) I suppose that would just have to be dealt with installed. It's really not that complex.
The power ring/bushing kit for the differential, as with all Stern products is available from purems.com. They started Stern and ARE Stern. I have had great experience with them and really wouldn't use anyone else for mount/drivetrain upgrades. This modification is going to assure you won't have any 'clunks' associated with high horsepower B5 applications. Just snugs everything up, ya know? Same as the differential bushing/carrier.
I will most likely be getting the CX racing Ebay intercooler and having a shop modify the inlets/outlets and having some aluminum piping custom bent to retain my stock fogs and mesh as well as having the core painted black to keep things hidden. They have been shown to give similar IATs as ER, AWE, etc. The full kit can be had for less than $400 on Ebay if you aren't concerned with losing your fogs and mesh.
-SRC and CXracing SMIC options have been shown to actually perform worse than the stock SMICs. Not an option .
-Wagner SMICs can be had for like $800 and perform similarly to ER and AWE options. It's all a matter of preference (cosmetics).
There is no need to wait for the engine to be out in order to service the transmission and/or differential. It's very straight forward with the engine in, however much more accessible with the engine/transmission out. As for the differential (more difficult of the two, considering space and needing 2 sets of hands) I suppose that would just have to be dealt with installed. It's really not that complex.
The power ring/bushing kit for the differential, as with all Stern products is available from purems.com. They started Stern and ARE Stern. I have had great experience with them and really wouldn't use anyone else for mount/drivetrain upgrades. This modification is going to assure you won't have any 'clunks' associated with high horsepower B5 applications. Just snugs everything up, ya know? Same as the differential bushing/carrier.
I will most likely be getting the CX racing Ebay intercooler and having a shop modify the inlets/outlets and having some aluminum piping custom bent to retain my stock fogs and mesh as well as having the core painted black to keep things hidden. They have been shown to give similar IATs as ER, AWE, etc. The full kit can be had for less than $400 on Ebay if you aren't concerned with losing your fogs and mesh.
-SRC and CXracing SMIC options have been shown to actually perform worse than the stock SMICs. Not an option .
-Wagner SMICs can be had for like $800 and perform similarly to ER and AWE options. It's all a matter of preference (cosmetics).
11-27-2011, 10:56 AM
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As for your MAF...the part number I posted is for the STOCK MAF (Hitachi). I believe the RS4 MAF is 83mm and the 85mm Hitachi MAF can be picked from ASP or AWE.
You will need a new housing and a new MAF.
You will need a new housing and a new MAF.