Why not use Stock A4 Springs on Allroad (B9)?
08-28-2021, 02:58 PM
#11
Tool Behind the Wrench
The bottom line, no I don't think you could utilize the 8K/4G generation spacers to assist on the 8W/4K generation.
The long why,
The 8K and 4G mounts used in the B8 and C7 products I do not thing would be directly relatable to the 8W and 4K mounts used in the B9 and C8 products. Primarily because the newer ones seem to have an angle to them.
For example, here we see the 8K0 512 149 C - https://baza.drom.ru/magnitogorsk/se...557282206.html
This is the 0mm mount we see on most of the A4 and A5 builds, as well as the A7 1BA. The ...149C is on the rubber itself.
Here is the 8K0 512 141 D - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...te/8k0512141d/
This is the 10mm mount we see on most of the C7 A6 avant codes as well as the A7 sport codes and the A5 sportback 1BA. Notice this is identified as ...141 rather than ...149. The 141 part is the spacer with mount; notice in the fourth pic that the rubber has the ...149C on it.
We see in this (fourth) pic the 141 part number on the spacer - https://baza.drom.ru/moskva/sell_spa...238106191.html
Here is the 8K0 512 141 G - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...te/8k0512141g/
This is the 13mm mount used on the A5 1BR and A4 1BR and 1BL (1BR = rough roads, 1BL = adaptive). As I mentioned, I found it odd that the allroad 1BP didn't use this. But maybe it does and it's a parts catalog error. So it's the same 149C mount with a 3mm thicker backer.
The A6 sedan seems to use a different mount, with an offset post and a positioning tab. You saw this in the link above for the 4G0 512 141. For whatever reason, the C7 avant and C7 sportback (A7) use the centered post versions like the B8s, but the C7 sedan uses that offset post and key tab. The wagon and sportback also tend to use a 10mm mount rather than the 0mm mount of the sedan. They clearly did something different with the components on the sedan for whatever reason. So C7 wagon would be +10mm be default, and then the +13mm for the 1BR suspension provides a total of +23mm spacer. But I could never find a pic of this 4G0 512 141 A part.
But the main takeaway here is that you notice the spring side and chassis side mating surfaces are parallel. Reflecting the manner in which the rear spring is mounted in that generation.
For the 8W/4K era, the upper mount is angled - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...te/4k0512149f/
And you see it's the plastic backer that is angled, not the rubber. So the flat spacer from the 8K era would not produce the necessary angle to work in the 8W era configuration.
They also seem to just call everything ...149_ for the current platforms. No 149 for the rubber and 141 for versions with a spacer.
Again, without having any of these things in my hands to determine, it's the best I can speculate based on the Internet. The 1BR rear upper spring mount for the A6 is 4K0 512 149 H. This replaced using 8W0 512 149 E, which is the same that the 8W allroad already uses (E replaced B). So I don't know if there's any large spacer version in the current era.
The long why,
The 8K and 4G mounts used in the B8 and C7 products I do not thing would be directly relatable to the 8W and 4K mounts used in the B9 and C8 products. Primarily because the newer ones seem to have an angle to them.
For example, here we see the 8K0 512 149 C - https://baza.drom.ru/magnitogorsk/se...557282206.html
This is the 0mm mount we see on most of the A4 and A5 builds, as well as the A7 1BA. The ...149C is on the rubber itself.
Here is the 8K0 512 141 D - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...te/8k0512141d/
This is the 10mm mount we see on most of the C7 A6 avant codes as well as the A7 sport codes and the A5 sportback 1BA. Notice this is identified as ...141 rather than ...149. The 141 part is the spacer with mount; notice in the fourth pic that the rubber has the ...149C on it.
We see in this (fourth) pic the 141 part number on the spacer - https://baza.drom.ru/moskva/sell_spa...238106191.html
Here is the 8K0 512 141 G - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...te/8k0512141g/
This is the 13mm mount used on the A5 1BR and A4 1BR and 1BL (1BR = rough roads, 1BL = adaptive). As I mentioned, I found it odd that the allroad 1BP didn't use this. But maybe it does and it's a parts catalog error. So it's the same 149C mount with a 3mm thicker backer.
The A6 sedan seems to use a different mount, with an offset post and a positioning tab. You saw this in the link above for the 4G0 512 141. For whatever reason, the C7 avant and C7 sportback (A7) use the centered post versions like the B8s, but the C7 sedan uses that offset post and key tab. The wagon and sportback also tend to use a 10mm mount rather than the 0mm mount of the sedan. They clearly did something different with the components on the sedan for whatever reason. So C7 wagon would be +10mm be default, and then the +13mm for the 1BR suspension provides a total of +23mm spacer. But I could never find a pic of this 4G0 512 141 A part.
But the main takeaway here is that you notice the spring side and chassis side mating surfaces are parallel. Reflecting the manner in which the rear spring is mounted in that generation.
For the 8W/4K era, the upper mount is angled - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...te/4k0512149f/
And you see it's the plastic backer that is angled, not the rubber. So the flat spacer from the 8K era would not produce the necessary angle to work in the 8W era configuration.
They also seem to just call everything ...149_ for the current platforms. No 149 for the rubber and 141 for versions with a spacer.
Again, without having any of these things in my hands to determine, it's the best I can speculate based on the Internet. The 1BR rear upper spring mount for the A6 is 4K0 512 149 H. This replaced using 8W0 512 149 E, which is the same that the 8W allroad already uses (E replaced B). So I don't know if there's any large spacer version in the current era.
My conundrum is that I fear I am looking for something that may be impossible. Improving street handling (reducing body roll, float, and understeer mainly) without compromising offroad capapbillity or ground clearance. Lifting the rear 1/2" if possible. I am already adding the 034 dynamic + rear sway bar. Considering doing spherical end links at the same time, or potentially the 034 Strut Brace later. If I can get those 12mm body lift Spaccers soon enough, I will do all of the rear end at once.
Semi on topic: I keep having the crazy notion that if I drop it on 034 Dynamic + springs (-55mm F/-50mm R) and then Max out the rear Spaccer at +60mm, and maybe +45 or+51 back up on the front? But this is like approaching air suspension costs at that point. And I imagine the springs are meant to handle the body at the lower height.
If I was honestly considering this, I would likely try and get 1 set of 12mm and have a set of +50mm or +60 mm spacers made.
SHould I just add a few 034 parts to stiffen everyting up, leave the suspension height alone, and put 245/45 or 255/40 19s on instead?
The car is such a good all arounder that it seems challenging to make improvements to one aspect without sacfrificing mcuh of another.
08-29-2021, 10:03 AM
#12
AudiWorld Super User
No, I just make the most of the available information. Which unfortunately too often comes up short in answering every detail.
Your main problem is no one makes sporty high clearance suspension components. You can't find aftermarket suspension components that aren't trying to drop the ride height it seems. Air might be the way to go, if you weren't looking at the checkbook.
Your main problem is no one makes sporty high clearance suspension components. You can't find aftermarket suspension components that aren't trying to drop the ride height it seems. Air might be the way to go, if you weren't looking at the checkbook.
08-29-2021, 10:44 AM
#13
Tool Behind the Wrench
No, I just make the most of the available information. Which unfortunately too often comes up short in answering every detail.
Your main problem is no one makes sporty high clearance suspension components. You can't find aftermarket suspension components that aren't trying to drop the ride height it seems. Air might be the way to go, if you weren't looking at the checkbook.
Your main problem is no one makes sporty high clearance suspension components. You can't find aftermarket suspension components that aren't trying to drop the ride height it seems. Air might be the way to go, if you weren't looking at the checkbook.
Thanks for your input....
Dan
05-24-2022, 03:31 PM
#14
AudiWorld Newcomer
I have the same car and same issue... did you lift yours? I'm looking into possibly putting a 12 - 15 mm spacer in back to try and level. Local shop in Redmond is looking into the feasibility of doing. Also have a bike rack that has scraped.
05-24-2022, 07:15 PM
#15
Tool Behind the Wrench
Yes, I lifted mine with the 12 mm Spaccer, and the 034 end links, plus some VMR 19x9.5 ET22s and 255/45 Conti DWS06s. With the 034 Sway bar and links, the Front Strut brace, and the new shoes, I really seemed to have improved handling and street performance whilst raising my ground clearance. Only took a few thousand dollars.... Guess the $750 OneUp rack wasn't so pricey of an alternative as it looked. Overall I'm happy with it, I'll see if I can find some before and after pics.
05-25-2022, 10:28 AM
#16
AudiWorld Newcomer
Yes, I lifted mine with the 12 mm Spaccer, and the 034 end links, plus some VMR 19x9.5 ET22s and 255/45 Conti DWS06s. With the 034 Sway bar and links, the Front Strut brace, and the new shoes, I really seemed to have improved handling and street performance whilst raising my ground clearance. Only took a few thousand dollars.... Guess the $750 OneUp rack wasn't so pricey of an alternative as it looked. Overall I'm happy with it, I'll see if I can find some before and after pics.
05-26-2022, 10:48 AM
#17
AudiWorld Newcomer
I agree with the comment below...you really appear to know OE suspension components quite well. I too have a B9 Allroad with stock adaptive suspension and like many others am trying to mitigate the reverse rake without sacrificing ride quality. What are your thoughts on using A5/S5 springs up front and possibly shimming the front if needed to achieve desired ride height? In the rear you mention there is a 12mm spacer on the upper spring support...is that removable to adjust for desired ride height? A5 is weight is more inline with the Allroad than an A4 so makes sense that they may be a good option. Have been corresponding with another Allroad owner who put S5 ABT HAS on his car. Not sure what his goal and results are at this point.
05-26-2022, 03:38 PM
#18
AudiWorld Super User
Station27, are you saying your stock B9 A4 allroad has a negative rake from the factory? Suspension PR code 2MN (allroad adaptive).
For the allroad, the expected ride height is 410±10mm from center of the wheel straight up to the bottom of the fender (the actual fender piece, not the allroad extension, if I'm interpreting the comment in the manual correctly) for the front and 408±10mm for the rear. Are you not seeing this result for your car?
Or have you changed something and now have the negative rake and wonder how to lift the rear back up? What was changed. Where are you at. What are you trying to get to. There's no point me guessing at the specifics if you're looking for accurate input.
I don't know the parts hands on; I only know what I can conclude from the available documentation.
For the allroad, the expected ride height is 410±10mm from center of the wheel straight up to the bottom of the fender (the actual fender piece, not the allroad extension, if I'm interpreting the comment in the manual correctly) for the front and 408±10mm for the rear. Are you not seeing this result for your car?
Or have you changed something and now have the negative rake and wonder how to lift the rear back up? What was changed. Where are you at. What are you trying to get to. There's no point me guessing at the specifics if you're looking for accurate input.
I don't know the parts hands on; I only know what I can conclude from the available documentation.
05-26-2022, 04:05 PM
#19
AudiWorld Newcomer
SMac770... from my measurements car is approx 18mm lower in the back, stock from the factory with no suspension mods. I would like to drop the front slightly to remove the reverse rake. Currently there are no Allroad specific HAS kits to make any adjustments. You seemingly have lots of knowledge on the springs/suspension of these cars and am looking for input on options to make suspension adjustments.
05-26-2022, 11:05 PM
#20
Tool Behind the Wrench
I think mine was about that, somewhere along the lines of 15-to 20mm higher to the fender arch in the front. 417/419mm and 403/400 I beleive. Still within spec. I have a spreadsheet on my old laptop on the options to go up or down. After the 12mm Spaccer and adjusting the 034 Rear endlinks out to +8ish mm, everything sat at around 437-440 with the bigger wheels.