Benfica...did you sort anything out over the weekend re: your CEL?
12-03-2003, 09:46 AM
#1
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Benfica...did you sort anything out over the weekend re: your CEL?
I was talking to digital over the weekend, and he mentioned that block 020 was timing retard. We were seeing 12's across the board...immediately after clearing the codes. Not sure what to look for next.
12-03-2003, 10:15 AM
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nope. no ideas. the CEL came back saturday morning.
i've been searching everything.
and the log results we did seem to be within spec. not sure what to check next.
i didn't get around to the spark plugs yet.
and the log results we did seem to be within spec. not sure what to check next.
i didn't get around to the spark plugs yet.
12-03-2003, 10:17 AM
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some one want to look at this incase i'm missing something....
Wednesday 26 November 2003 12:43:58
4D0 907 551 AH 2.8L V6/5V MOTR HS D01
Group A: '002
Engine speed Engine load Injection time Mass air flow
TIME RPM 1-2.5/.8-2.5ms 2-5/1.6-5ms 2.8-5.6/10-15g/s
MARKER STAMP /min ms ms g/s
0 1800 6.4 9.79 46.53
0.21 2040 7.15 10.82 59.17
0.47 2120 7.2 10.82 61.04
0.73 2160 7.3 10.94 64.03
0.99 2240 7.4 11.01 66.46
1.25 2320 7.45 11.07 69.37
1.51 2360 7.55 11.14 71.67
1.77 2440 7.6 11.26 74.51
2.03 2520 7.65 11.26 76.81
2.29 2560 7.7 11.26 79.31
2.54 2640 7.75 11.39 81.73
2.8 2720 7.75 11.46 83.96
3.06 2760 7.8 11.46 86.11
3.32 2840 7.8 11.78 88.61
3.57 2880 7.85 11.78 90.42
3.82 2960 7.85 12.1 92.71
4.08 3000 7.9 12.16 94.93
4.34 3040 7.95 12.1 96.81
4.6 3120 7.95 12.16 98.82
4.86 3160 8 12.16 100.69
5.12 3240 8 12.22 103.26
5.38 3240 8.05 12.29 104.79
5.64 3320 8.05 12.29 106.67
5.9 3360 8.1 12.35 109.23
6.16 3440 8.15 12.42 111.59
6.42 3480 8.15 12.48 113.33
6.68 3520 8.2 12.54 115.97
6.94 3600 8.2 12.54 117.71
7.2 3640 8.2 12.54 119.65
7.46 3680 8.25 12.61 121.59
7.72 3720 8.3 12.67 123.89
7.98 3800 8.3 12.74 126.59
8.24 3840 8.1 12.74 125
8.5 3920 8.1 12.8 126.39
8.76 3960 8.15 12.86 129.58
9.02 4040 8.2 12.93 131.67
9.28 4080 8.2 12.93 134.17
9.54 4120 8.3 13.06 136.81
9.8 4200 8.35 13.12 139.51
10.07 4280 8.35 13.18 143.26
10.32 4360 8.35 13.5 145.48
10.6 4400 8.4 13.57 147.78
10.88 4480 8.45 13.57 151.18
11.16 4560 8.5 13.63 155.07
11.44 4640 8.5 14.08 157.64
11.73 4720 8.55 14.21 162.01
12.01 4840 8.65 14.34 166.87
12.31 4920 8.65 14.34 170
12.61 5000 8.65 14.4 173.12
12.92 5080 8.75 14.59 177.64
13.23 5200 8.8 14.66 181.67
13.52 5280 8.85 15.04 185.97
13.84 5400 8.85 15.1 190.9
14.16 5480 8.9 15.23 195.97
14.49 5600 8.9 15.62 198.68
14.84 5720 8.95 16 204.58
15.18 5840 8.95 16 208.68
15.53 5960 9 16.32 214.72
15.89 6080 9.05 16.32 219.79
16.26 6200 9.05 16.32 223.47
16.59 6040 0.85 0.96 21.53
16.9 5520 0.85 0.96 19.58
17.18 5080 0.95 1.02 19.23
and.....
Wednesday 26 November 2003 12:48:27
4D0 907 551 AH 2.8L V6/5V MOTR HS D01
Group A: '031
Voltage Voltage Voltage Voltage
TIME +/-10% +/-10% +/-10% +/-10%
MARKER STAMP V V V V
0 0.725 0.29 0.735 0.33
0.27 0.07 0.405 0.075 0.61
0.51 0.79 0.44 0.805 0.63
0.77 0.845 0.48 0.82 0.63
1.02 0.865 0.515 0.85 0.63
1.28 0.82 0.705 0.735 0.65
1.52 0.045 0.82 0.06 0.8
1.78 0.045 0.745 0.08 0.78
2.04 0.15 0.105 0.765 0.745
2.3 0.77 0.2 0.815 0.78
2.56 0.83 0.78 0.85 0.855
2.82 0.825 0.855 0.83 0.855
3.07 0.845 0.875 0.845 0.875
3.34 0.835 0.875 0.855 0.875
3.6 0.84 0.875 0.845 0.875
3.86 0.835 0.875 0.85 0.875
4.12 0.835 0.875 0.845 0.875
4.38 0.835 0.875 0.845 0.875
4.64 0.835 0.875 0.84 0.875
4.9 0.845 0.875 0.85 0.875
5.16 0.845 0.875 0.855 0.875
5.42 0.845 0.875 0.855 0.875
5.69 0.845 0.895 0.855 0.875
5.96 0.845 0.875 0.855 0.875
6.25 0.855 0.895 0.86 0.875
6.53 0.85 0.895 0.855 0.875
6.83 0.85 0.875 0.86 0.875
7.14 0.855 0.895 0.865 0.875
7.46 0.86 0.895 0.865 0.895
7.78 0.855 0.895 0.865 0.875
8.13 0.85 0.875 0.865 0.875
8.49 0.855 0.875 0.85 0.875
8.85 0.865 0.895 0.88 0.875
9.16 0.575 0.91 0.665 0.91
9.48 0.845 0.93 0.84 0.91
9.74 0.82 0.875 0.82 0.875
10.01 0.8 0.835 0.81 0.835
10.28 0.82 0.835 0.82 0.835
10.55 0.81 0.855 0.82 0.835
10.85 0.82 0.855 0.825 0.835
11.12 0.85 0.875 0.86 0.875
11.39 0.85 0.875 0.86 0.875
11.69 0.845 0.875 0.855 0.875
11.96 0.855 0.895 0.86 0.875
12.25 0.85 0.875 0.86 0.875
12.55 0.855 0.895 0.86 0.875
12.84 0.855 0.895 0.86 0.875
13.15 0.855 0.895 0.86 0.875
13.46 0.85 0.895 0.855 0.875
13.77 0.855 0.895 0.865 0.895
14.09 0.86 0.895 0.865 0.875
14.43 0.855 0.895 0.865 0.875
14.76 0.855 0.895 0.855 0.875
15.09 0.875 0.895 0.875 0.895
15.4 0.86 0.91 0.865 0.91
15.72 0.845 0.895 0.845 0.895
16.03 0.84 0.895 0.82 0.895
16.3 0.59 0.895 0.695 0.875
16.58 0.01 0.875 0 0.875
16.84 0.005 0.03 0.005 0.045
17.12 0 0.01 0.005 0.01
17.38 0 0 0.005 0
17.65 0 0 0 0
17.93 0 0.01 0 0
<img src="http://images4.fotki.com/v49/free/f2ee4/8/87136/332658/log002-or.jpg">
<img src="http://images4.fotki.com/v49/free/f2ee4/8/87136/332658/log031-or.jpg">
4D0 907 551 AH 2.8L V6/5V MOTR HS D01
Group A: '002
Engine speed Engine load Injection time Mass air flow
TIME RPM 1-2.5/.8-2.5ms 2-5/1.6-5ms 2.8-5.6/10-15g/s
MARKER STAMP /min ms ms g/s
0 1800 6.4 9.79 46.53
0.21 2040 7.15 10.82 59.17
0.47 2120 7.2 10.82 61.04
0.73 2160 7.3 10.94 64.03
0.99 2240 7.4 11.01 66.46
1.25 2320 7.45 11.07 69.37
1.51 2360 7.55 11.14 71.67
1.77 2440 7.6 11.26 74.51
2.03 2520 7.65 11.26 76.81
2.29 2560 7.7 11.26 79.31
2.54 2640 7.75 11.39 81.73
2.8 2720 7.75 11.46 83.96
3.06 2760 7.8 11.46 86.11
3.32 2840 7.8 11.78 88.61
3.57 2880 7.85 11.78 90.42
3.82 2960 7.85 12.1 92.71
4.08 3000 7.9 12.16 94.93
4.34 3040 7.95 12.1 96.81
4.6 3120 7.95 12.16 98.82
4.86 3160 8 12.16 100.69
5.12 3240 8 12.22 103.26
5.38 3240 8.05 12.29 104.79
5.64 3320 8.05 12.29 106.67
5.9 3360 8.1 12.35 109.23
6.16 3440 8.15 12.42 111.59
6.42 3480 8.15 12.48 113.33
6.68 3520 8.2 12.54 115.97
6.94 3600 8.2 12.54 117.71
7.2 3640 8.2 12.54 119.65
7.46 3680 8.25 12.61 121.59
7.72 3720 8.3 12.67 123.89
7.98 3800 8.3 12.74 126.59
8.24 3840 8.1 12.74 125
8.5 3920 8.1 12.8 126.39
8.76 3960 8.15 12.86 129.58
9.02 4040 8.2 12.93 131.67
9.28 4080 8.2 12.93 134.17
9.54 4120 8.3 13.06 136.81
9.8 4200 8.35 13.12 139.51
10.07 4280 8.35 13.18 143.26
10.32 4360 8.35 13.5 145.48
10.6 4400 8.4 13.57 147.78
10.88 4480 8.45 13.57 151.18
11.16 4560 8.5 13.63 155.07
11.44 4640 8.5 14.08 157.64
11.73 4720 8.55 14.21 162.01
12.01 4840 8.65 14.34 166.87
12.31 4920 8.65 14.34 170
12.61 5000 8.65 14.4 173.12
12.92 5080 8.75 14.59 177.64
13.23 5200 8.8 14.66 181.67
13.52 5280 8.85 15.04 185.97
13.84 5400 8.85 15.1 190.9
14.16 5480 8.9 15.23 195.97
14.49 5600 8.9 15.62 198.68
14.84 5720 8.95 16 204.58
15.18 5840 8.95 16 208.68
15.53 5960 9 16.32 214.72
15.89 6080 9.05 16.32 219.79
16.26 6200 9.05 16.32 223.47
16.59 6040 0.85 0.96 21.53
16.9 5520 0.85 0.96 19.58
17.18 5080 0.95 1.02 19.23
and.....
Wednesday 26 November 2003 12:48:27
4D0 907 551 AH 2.8L V6/5V MOTR HS D01
Group A: '031
Voltage Voltage Voltage Voltage
TIME +/-10% +/-10% +/-10% +/-10%
MARKER STAMP V V V V
0 0.725 0.29 0.735 0.33
0.27 0.07 0.405 0.075 0.61
0.51 0.79 0.44 0.805 0.63
0.77 0.845 0.48 0.82 0.63
1.02 0.865 0.515 0.85 0.63
1.28 0.82 0.705 0.735 0.65
1.52 0.045 0.82 0.06 0.8
1.78 0.045 0.745 0.08 0.78
2.04 0.15 0.105 0.765 0.745
2.3 0.77 0.2 0.815 0.78
2.56 0.83 0.78 0.85 0.855
2.82 0.825 0.855 0.83 0.855
3.07 0.845 0.875 0.845 0.875
3.34 0.835 0.875 0.855 0.875
3.6 0.84 0.875 0.845 0.875
3.86 0.835 0.875 0.85 0.875
4.12 0.835 0.875 0.845 0.875
4.38 0.835 0.875 0.845 0.875
4.64 0.835 0.875 0.84 0.875
4.9 0.845 0.875 0.85 0.875
5.16 0.845 0.875 0.855 0.875
5.42 0.845 0.875 0.855 0.875
5.69 0.845 0.895 0.855 0.875
5.96 0.845 0.875 0.855 0.875
6.25 0.855 0.895 0.86 0.875
6.53 0.85 0.895 0.855 0.875
6.83 0.85 0.875 0.86 0.875
7.14 0.855 0.895 0.865 0.875
7.46 0.86 0.895 0.865 0.895
7.78 0.855 0.895 0.865 0.875
8.13 0.85 0.875 0.865 0.875
8.49 0.855 0.875 0.85 0.875
8.85 0.865 0.895 0.88 0.875
9.16 0.575 0.91 0.665 0.91
9.48 0.845 0.93 0.84 0.91
9.74 0.82 0.875 0.82 0.875
10.01 0.8 0.835 0.81 0.835
10.28 0.82 0.835 0.82 0.835
10.55 0.81 0.855 0.82 0.835
10.85 0.82 0.855 0.825 0.835
11.12 0.85 0.875 0.86 0.875
11.39 0.85 0.875 0.86 0.875
11.69 0.845 0.875 0.855 0.875
11.96 0.855 0.895 0.86 0.875
12.25 0.85 0.875 0.86 0.875
12.55 0.855 0.895 0.86 0.875
12.84 0.855 0.895 0.86 0.875
13.15 0.855 0.895 0.86 0.875
13.46 0.85 0.895 0.855 0.875
13.77 0.855 0.895 0.865 0.895
14.09 0.86 0.895 0.865 0.875
14.43 0.855 0.895 0.865 0.875
14.76 0.855 0.895 0.855 0.875
15.09 0.875 0.895 0.875 0.895
15.4 0.86 0.91 0.865 0.91
15.72 0.845 0.895 0.845 0.895
16.03 0.84 0.895 0.82 0.895
16.3 0.59 0.895 0.695 0.875
16.58 0.01 0.875 0 0.875
16.84 0.005 0.03 0.005 0.045
17.12 0 0.01 0.005 0.01
17.38 0 0 0.005 0
17.65 0 0 0 0
17.93 0 0.01 0 0
<img src="http://images4.fotki.com/v49/free/f2ee4/8/87136/332658/log002-or.jpg">
<img src="http://images4.fotki.com/v49/free/f2ee4/8/87136/332658/log031-or.jpg">
12-03-2003, 10:21 AM
#5
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(I'm thinking maybe you should throw in a new coolant temp sensor)
If it's going bad, but now quite dead, it can result in a rich condition. Not sure how that correlates to severly retarded timing....
12-03-2003, 10:28 AM
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Yikes .. .12 ish is the MAXIMUM the ECU can dial back IIRC. That suggets to me that it might be want
-ing to pull back even more if it could. Pinging ???
His logs appear to show the injector duty cycle is maxing before the max air flow ...
What was the code ???
His logs appear to show the injector duty cycle is maxing before the max air flow ...
What was the code ???
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12-03-2003, 10:41 AM
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Timing pull back (if RAJ was saying 12 degrees) is still a concern but I think I'd look at the
coolant temp sensor as Raj suggested below. Sounds like it isn't registering a warm condition and ECU continues to dump cold condition fuel load.
12-03-2003, 10:53 AM
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What criteria does the engine use to retard/advance timing?
And what blocks to those criteria correspond to?
We did check coolant temp on the VAG when his car was warm, and it was registering 90C...but other people have noted the same thing...even though the CTS was failing. Is there anyway to confirm a failing CTS...or do you just swap it if you find a rich condition?
We did check coolant temp on the VAG when his car was warm, and it was registering 90C...but other people have noted the same thing...even though the CTS was failing. Is there anyway to confirm a failing CTS...or do you just swap it if you find a rich condition?