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Hi all, I took my 1.8T manual transmission audi a4 to the big O to get the alignment checked. They weren't able to adjust the rear camber or the rear toe, and I'm off quite a bit on both. It's already started to eat away unevenly on my rear tires.
I was wondering whether the camber adjustments are on the rear lower control arm, or the upper control arm, or both. Also, they said that the bolts just spin, so I'm thinking that the bolts are fused to the bushings. Should I fork over the money for new control arms, or press the bushings in myself?
I'm new to this 5-link suspension system. I'm used the Honda Civic double A-arm suspension where camber and castor are non adjustable, so any tips or advice or transferable knowledge will be much appreciated. Thank you!
If you want exact values, I'll upload a scan of the printout they gave me:
Hey Jon, I had the same thing happen when I had my B5 in for alignment. Both adjusters on each side were seized. I bought new adjusters with the eccentric washers from Audi and ended up cutting off all of those bolts with a reciprocating saw and carbide blade. A regular hacksaw type blade will not cut it. Those bolts were also seized in the track rods so replaced them as well along with new stab bar links. Be careful with the carbide blade when you're sawing near the subframe! I accidentally sliced into mine a bit and took some grinding to smooth it out. I also replaced the lower bushing in the Wheel Bearing Housing as well, as a part of this. I used this as an opportunity to replace all of the control arm bushings, axles and more while I was at it.
Edit: I should have added... The toe adjusters are on the inboard end of the track rods. Camber are on the lower wheel bearing housings to lower control arms. No adjusters on the upper control arms. I can give you more details if you'd like.
Last edited by desertsage; 06-21-2020 at 08:41 AM.
You can see the camber adjusting bolt with eccentric washer in the lower right, partially hidden by the brake line and e-brake cable. The toe adjustment is at the inboard end of the track rod, top center. The eccentric washer is seated inside of an inverted U shaped plate that is tack welded to the subframe.
So I checked under the car and I could see what you were talking about, but mine is rusted out pretty damn bad. I'll upload pictures. I can't decide what I'm going to do. Complete suspension overhaul? Just get bushings and bolts? I dunno, maybe you can help me decide. Turns out a previous owner has lowered the rear. This causes the camber to not be adjusted back to stock, but it can be adjusted to a better place than now, according to Big O. Upper control arm bushing seems shot. So does this one.
Yours does look pretty rusty but not significantly different form mine, If you had seen my "before" photos. Those seized alignment fasteners were my inspiration to overhaul the whole works. After removing the control arms, brakes and brake lines, axles, tack rods and stab bar and links. I sanded and wire brushed all of the subframe that I could get to and then coated it all with rusty metal primer and 3 coats of glossy black Rustoleum. I know that I should have used POR-15 but I don't have spray equipment and figured this would get me down the line for a few years until I decide to actually remove the subframe.
Yes, your bushings look like they are toast. I guess it depends on how much you want to jump into this but you will notice a world of difference after doing the work. I opted to buy all of the bushings and press them in and out myself but I had a lesson in humility. They were so seized in there! I ended up having the Audi dealer do the press work and also press in new rear wheel bearings that I had, since the WB housings were out anyway. After the shop was finished with that, I gave the control arms and wheel bearing housings the same wire brush and paint job as the subframe. It all looked pretty when I was finished, and with all of the bolts replaced with new OE versions. Ah, it was a lot of work but so satisfying in the end.
On the lower control arms, the rear inner bushing are no longer available anywhere in the US, that I was able to find. I ordered them from Germany (from masteda-partsde) and had them installed here with the other bushings but I probably spent more in the long run than I would have just buying new, complete with new bushings, lower control arms (still available) from Audi, considering the cost of all the bushings and shop work. Plus I wouldn't have had to sand and refinish them. I don't always do things the smart way! And, maybe there is a source for those lower arms other than Audi.
I'm running on here too long but one more consideration are your upper shock mounts (that mount to the body in your wheel well). They are probably completely rusted out on the back side. It is a common thing, I was to learn. There was practically nothing left of mine. I bought new ones from Audi but I think there are other sources. I should add that the parts people at my local Audi dealer have been very good to me and have been giving me discounts. They claim that they want to see me keep my B5 on the road, as there aren't that many of them around town.
If you love the car and it's in decent shape, you might as well dive into a complete overhaul, if you can afford it or make it affordable. Maybe you can do it in segments but removing those alignment bolts might send you into doing it all at once like it did me. I am no expert at this but am very happy to share what I've learned along the way if you have questions. I would even flare a few hard brake line sections for you if yours are seized and the fittings crumble, as mine did. I have some extra supplies.
Hey, there are others here on this forum that have a lot more experience with this stuff than I do. Hopefully someone else will comment and give you different viewpoint or evaluation.
I'll price out what a complete overhaul would be. I did the whole "press out and in the bushings" thing on my old civic, and it didn't work out so well, so I think I'll go with the whole control arm route.
I should have added (more, if you can believe it ) that I was buying and collecting parts for this project for at least a year before I finally began the work, buying on sale when I could find them from different suppliers. The expense didn't hit me all at once.
I noticed in a couple of your photos that the dish shaped thrust washer is missing from your upper control arm to wheel housing connection and bushing. My model year is 1997 so maybe different than yours? Or maybe someone had turned the washer the wrong direction? I'll post a "before" photo, as I don't seem to have one of the finished work here. I had replaced the upper shock mounts that I'd mentioned the year before so the replacement (dirty now) shows behind.
Last edited by desertsage; 06-23-2020 at 12:13 PM.
Reason: Add info
Thanks for adding that. This stuff is crazy expensive and hard to find. I think I'll go to the junkyards and see if any A4s have relatively newer suspension components. It'd be worth the 2 dollars it takes to check both my local junkyards, even though there's a fat chance that any of them aren't super rusted out.
That sounds like a good plan. There are also online auto parts recycling places like carparts4sale.com who specialize in used Audi and VW parts with free shipping.
How did you get the hand brake and regular brake lines out of the lower control arms? I had to resort to cutting them at the junkyard. Don't want to do that to my car.
06-20-2020, 06:16 PM
Camber Adjustment in the Rear
) that I was buying and collecting parts for this project for at least a year before I finally began the work, buying on sale when I could find them from different suppliers. The expense didn't hit me all at once.
