RKA

For those that have used/installed these, can you give me some feedback? Pete is considering installing a DTS on his A4, and I'm considering the same on my S.

It seems a lot of driveline slop is caused the engine movement. I'm wondering if anchoring the driveline via a DTS, while still leaving the stock engine mounts in place might cause some undue stress at the point where the engine connects to the driveline? Right now, the driveline moves with the engine, but anchoring one part and not the other would increase stress on that "joint", no? Would it be a better idea to install a snub mount first (limiting engine rocking), THEN installing a DTS if I want to further limit driveline lash?

The second question is about the snub mount. It installs in front of the engine, so it limits front to back motions of the engine, correct?? Driveline lash is really caused by the engine turning side to side as power is applied, correct? If so, aren't the DTS and the snub mount really designed to handle two different scenarios? If this is true, then installing a DTS should have no ill effects, as long as the engine rotates along the axis the driveline is on. The snub mount would additionally limit front to back movement, and could be installed AFTER the DTS, if there is some driveline lash remaining that I want to address.

Please HELP! I have NO idea what the hell I'm talking about...I'm mostly thinking out loud.

Silver Streakin'

not installed :-p

RKA

Need to sell...
*A4 H&R coilovers (sold, but waiting for buyer to pick up)
*Ed P Digital boost gauge (eternally on sale)
*A4 (see my sig!)
*S4 Neuspeed Borla

Need to install...
*DTS
*Valentine 1 (hardwire)
*Escort ZR3
*Tanoga Short Shifter

Need to uninstall...
*Nokia CarKit from S4
*Bailey BPV from A4

On the wish list...
*Neuspeed rear sway bar
*AWE Twin 2 exhaust/Milltek exhaust
*X chip

Parts waiting at dealer...
*2 710N valves

Servicing that needs to be performed...
*S4 - Emissions inspection at dealer (7/27)
*S4 - PA State Inspection somewhere else (that will let tint slide)

Steve Trac, Sec 303

shifting. I loved it. A couple days later, I installed the TSB and noticed a small difference. The shifter **** doesn't shake like it used to. Everything does feel firmer. I wish I could drive a car that only has the bar to see what it does by itself.

Regarding installing them, it doesn't matter the order you do. They are technically meant for different things (I've read).

Catfish

<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/869351.phtml">$.02</a></li></ul>

VAP

The DTS and the snub accomplish much the same benefit from different places, ie, the snub from the front and the DTS from the rear. Both are designed to do the same thing tho the DTS may offer some additional chassis rigidity.

While you're right in that the direction of engine rotation does cause some left/right engine deflection when throttle is 'blipped' at idle, while the car is parked, that same action creates/transfers to a fore/aft rocking motion once torque is transferred/transmitted to the ground via the driveline. A phenomenon easily viewed by raisng the hood and revving the engine while parked and peeking under the hood into the engine compartment... you'll see left/right engine motion. Now set the emergency brake (HARD), put the transmission in gear, rev the engine and let out the clutch slightly till it engages and but not enough to stall the engine or overcome the emergency brake. This will show the engine rocking down in the rear, up in the front. This is what the engine is doing all the time when it's under accelerated load. Left to right unloaded, fore and aft when loaded. The opposite action occurs when decelerating... front of engine down/ rear up. By the way, the same little example above can also be done with an auto/tip tranny excluding the clutch step.

The snub and the DTS both reduce this fore/aft motion and rather than "misalign" as you mentioned actually do a better job of keeping everything better aligned. The engine, transmission, driveshaft and rear differential are kept closer to parallel, in a straight line and more stable under heavy/extreme acceleration/deceleration and closer to perfect alignment... as when the car is parked.

As to preferences or benefit it's about a wash. Only very subtle, almost imperceptable benefit to both. I use both but claim no empirical benefit over one or the other. The DTS can't help but give me a little more structural rigidity in the chassis but at the cost of some minor (tho acceptable) droning/resonating especially on deceleration. Much of which I've eliminated with some urethane sheeting 'sandwiched' between the DTS mounting pads and the chassis. The DTS is a cake-walk to install taking less than 20 minutes tho the initial buy-in runs over 7x the snub.

The snub on the other hand is an incredibly good bargain at + or- $50. It's drawback is it's a little more complicated/difficult and expensive to install unless you DIY. And there's usually some "fiddlin" and/or tweaking involved with getting it centered tho I got mine in first time, right outta the box with none of the much-touted grinding and fiddlin with getting it centered or steering wheel vibration.

As to which one you choose, that's a matter of personal preference and what you will be doing with your car. If you're an agressive street driver that see's an occasional autocross I think the snub would be my choice. If you get out on a road course 6 or 8 times a year with a spattering of autocrosses on some weekends in between, I'd opt for the DTS. If you are doing a competitive event EVERY weekend, buying track time weekly, own separate wheels with R-compunds or slicks and won't be happy till you've done everything you can to make your car the best it can be and are constantly looking for that .01 second off your best times then do both.

Good luck and happy choosing

RKA

where did you find that? I assume you cut it to fit the entire triangular piece that bolts to the bottom of the car? Good idea. AWE claims no increased resonance as a result of the DTS, but if there is any, that should eliminate it.

Thank for the input. That's exactly what I was looking for! I didn't realize how the engine shifts when placed under load, so it makes a little more sense now. My goal is not to gain every 0.1 sec. on a track, rather to create a more solid feel with the car. With a chipped S4, all that driveline slop is exaggerated. While the DTS does cost more, I like the ease of installation, which is why I would prefer to do that...and AWE knocked off $100 at Waterfest, so that helped convince me to try it! :-)

VAP

I found a local source in Denver for some 80 duronometer 1/16" thick urethane. If you go up in duronometer hardness it'll provide less sound absorption and allow more transmission. I tired 60, 70, 80 and 90 duro sheet stock. The softer "squished" out more especially on the large bolt and allowed some metal-to-metal contact without any benefit. The 80 duro stuff was the best compromise... didn't "squish" excessively with most pronounced sound dampening.

Just lay the sheet out on a table and trace around the "delta" shaped end mounts and trace around with a small point permanent marker and inside the holes. Cut with an X-Acto knife and put it in the car and torque to spec.

Yeah I've heard too that there's no resonance associated with the DTS but there absolutely is, especially on deceleration. I can spot one with a DTS just by riding inside. And the urethane doesn't completely cure the resonance... but diminishes it by about 60-75%.

SameerP

The issue from what i visualize is that the tranny/engine combo rocks on the mounts due to:
1) soft engine mounts to mimimize NVH
2) no hard connection between the tranny and side rails.

So the DTS solves in the preferred way (IMHO) by hard mounting a bar to hold the tranny in place, leaving the engine mount(s) stock. My understanding is the snub mount can place additional stresses due to limiting movement...but its really no different that using polyurethane bushings in your suspension instead of rubber, for instance.

Cheers,
Sameer

RKA

Damn shifter does a dance all by itself (much worse than the A4). Add a chip, and the shifter moves around like a mexican jumping bean! If there is that much slop in the driveline, I'm sure a DTS would make the car feel MUCH more solid in on/off throttle situations.

I read your initial review, when you first installed the DTS. I never doubted what you said, but I never felt like the A4 needed something there either. The S, on the other hand, feels like it does need something to "firm things up".