ErikR

Actually, take a gander at Bimmer, etc. Monthy columns about how poor the rain or snow handling is.

Will Allen

Steve,<br> I know that all of the people who originally got me so psyched about my A4 are still here, and are still providing quality information and insights. But you've got to admit that the number of mis-informed and biased posts and BMW-flame wars in here has gone through the roof as the popularity of the A4 and A4.org has grown. I suppose it's to be expected. Also, I think all of the A4.orgers I've met in person have been very open-minded and enthusiastic about cars in general. <br> Maybe I've just gotten tired of wading through the b.s. to get to the good stuff, or maybe it's just cuz I've owned and/or driven almost all of the cars in question...in stock and modified form, so I can actually understand that they all do what they are meant to do well, and are all well-worth the prices that they demand.<br> Then again, maybe it's just the fact that right now I have NO car and am getting very tired of biking everywhere I go and can't stand reading posts from people who actually own cars! Or maybe I'm just sick of waiting for APR to finish their 300hp kit so I can decide what my next car is going to be. Mygosh, part of me is even listening to my brother telling me to get a 96 Integra and throw a DRAG turbo on it....stop the insanity!<br> Thanks for the reminder, Steve.<br><ul><li><a href="http://vu.union.edu/~allenw">My A4 and M3 page</a></li></ul>

Raja

Like I said last week, if the rain/snow argument is the best argument that can be made in its favor over the M3, then it is a poor argument indeed. I own a '99 Passat 1.8T and looking at the BMW's (especially the new 3 series) and the A4 I think they are both beautiful. If I had the money, I would definitely consider an M3 or the S4/A4. I just don't understand why the A4 keeps being compared to the M3 when they really are not that close in numbers or price. Perhaps S4/M3 with quattro helping to compensate for the lower power numbers of the S4, but to compare the A4 to the M3...apples to oranges.<p>WILL, on another note, I wanted to thank you for the excellent pics of your A4 on your website. I couldn't decide which wheels to get for my Passat until I saw those Type T's on your A4. Just took delivery of a set of 17's with 225/45/17. Beautifull wheels, and at the Waterfest show in Jersey this weekend, saw only one car with the wheels. A true sleeper. I hope Tire Rack keeps putting those crappy pics of the wheel in their ads. Makes less people want to buy it!<p>Raja

Reggie

BMW are the best handing sedans in the world. The Audi's are the best values and the best for real world conditions on the road. I have owned both.<p>Reggie<p>98.5 30vQMS

Will Allen

The wheels definitely look better in person and from any angle other than straight on. The spokes curve out, and then back in, which really makes for a neat affect when viewed from say, a 3/4 angle. One day I was driving MichaelB's car while he was in front in my car...the wheels looked awesome whenever he turned to go around a corner. <p>Good choice!<p>Will

ALD

Your father is going to purchase what he likes, dispit what you say. If he likes the Bimmer, then he should get a bimmer. If he likes the S4, he should get an S4. I am not going to endorse either car, because they are both fine cars. But it is your father's choice and your father's choice alone. He is the one that has to drive the car everyday.<br>He may not like certain aspects of the S4/A4 or the BMW. He has to weight the decision himself. <br>And BTW, I have tried when I was a young teen to convince my father to get a certain car, and it did not work. He is the one spending the money, and he is the one who will be driving it.

Will Allen

Handling and braking are primarily a function of traction. My M3 with snows 'outhandled' and outbraked my A4 with all-seasons. The A4 whooped it's butt in any sort of acceleration contest, snows or no snows, but how many accidents/winter weather problems are caused by not being able to 'go' fast enough? I saw more SUV's and fwd cars off the road this winter because they thought AWD/4wd made them better drivers in the mushy stuff. BMW has a wonderful traction control system that makes a fabulous dry-weather car a very driveable bad-weather car, with proper tires, which are more important to making any car safe in the winter than how many drive wheels there are.

KJK

Thank you for some reasoned thought Steve. People seem to forget that it snows in Germany and there are plenty of BMW's sold there. Driving safely in snow probably has as much to do with the driver's experience as the car. I learned to drive in the snow in Oregon in an old Toyota hatchback, it got sideways if you downshifted without blipping the throttle--that was scary when downshifting from 4th to 3rd. But I learned how to drive it without crashing.<p>I have my wife leaning heavily towards an Audi wagon for our next car. Please don't give me a reason to buy an SUV. By the way, what was with that comment above "people who rip off the public buy BMW's". Is this the People's Republic of Audi? Most Audi and BMW drivers could not be distinguished outside their vehicles.<p>KJK 91 M5--will never drive it in the snow, unless it snows in Los Altos some time soon.

Steve S.

I didn't say "People who rip off the public buy BMWs"....I don't know where the author was going with that statement either.<p>I once drove my 77 Jeep Cherokee Chief...with 4WD engaged...down an icy road when I lived in Vail CO. As I approached an intersection where my road actually did a "T" into the other road...I noticed that my brakes were on....my wheel was turned ...but I was still going forward...about to go off a mini-cliff....I got out of it by accelerating and bringing the front around....quite the hair-raising experience though. Like I keep saying 4WD is only as good as the driver makes it.<p>I actually manuveured quite well in my 85 GTI FWD while in Tahoe...I never got stuck and actually hauled *** on a couple of instances. The funny part is when I was going to Northstar and by accident put the chains on the rear tires (the car was FWD).<br>OOPS.<p>BTW, there is a black/black 91 M5 in the Diablo Dealer this week...in our region....<br>I think they want $20K...is that a good price?<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM

ErikR

No disagreement about the tires. A sube with 5" wide ice tires can do superbly. I am a vocal advocate of REAL snow tires regardless of the car. Now with both on proper snows, I still strongly favor the AWD.<p>I used to drive a SCCA prepped 240Z, fun, and still drivable in winter with good tires. A lot more work to avoid power oversteer, it took all the fun out of winter driving.<p>FWD is for understeering nutcases (many who are great drivers-just not my bag), and people who shouldn't be in RWD. Most of these get all-seasons, and AAA to get towed. 4x4 is an altogether different story.<p>The lack of an open center differential in most 4x4's (Jeeps top option package a rare exc.) is a real handling issue, imho. You get snap under and oversteer and it is very hard to recover once it goes. I have a Nissan path and the A4q is a much better winter vehicle.