BMW=Members Only jackets, Regan-omics, Studio 54, and coke spoons not high tech cars!
07-07-2002, 11:09 AM
#1
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BMW=Members Only jackets, Regan-omics, Studio 54, and coke spoons not high tech cars!
IMO BMW is stuck with that 3-series that looks the same as the old 3-series. Why? It's got the L O N G hood line to cover the inline six. BMW never developed a V6, bad move.
When the weight and compactness of the alloy Audi V6 is compared to the 'ol iron inline six it is a push-over, a knock-out to the first degree. I am still looking for the virtue of the BMW I-6. In a street car where economy and packaging is paramount, it is a DINOSAUR. Don't even try to say BMW is leading engine development, they are far behind and will soon be selling cars based on reputation and overall ride quality, like Mercedes and ...Lincon - ha ha!(they are now!)
A more compact engine makes for a shorter, more aerodynamic hood line, and it makes for applications in a smaller car. Nothing even close to the advanced geometry W engines on the horizon at BMW, I can buy one now at VW! 260 hp with an 8cyl engine that will fit in a A3? Can you say Steppenwolf? VR5-WTF? No variable ride heights like the Allroad, no aluminum space-frame technology like the almost 10 year OLD A8! No CVT or Multi-valve engines, no aluminum suspensions like Audi.
What the hell is going on at BMW anyway? Big Mistake in Winter. What's going on at Audi/VW is the new World Speed Records, about 10 of them. LeMans, MPG Worlds record since 1992, a full-size aluminum prototype 5000S w/turbine engine...over 200mpg, Coast-to-Coast in 1 tankfull. Take the Direct Injection from Volkswagen. VW Lupo takes 3 litres of Diesel to go 100km, about 78mpg. Thermal efficiency of 45%. Sadi Carnot's 1834 theoretical limit for a recriprocating internal combustion engine is only 59% efficient.(assuming no heat or friction loss!?)Conventional engines like BMWs are about 25%. A GM diesel is still below 30%, less than the obsolete TDI.
There is one engine spec I think is important power/weight, period. How does a helicopter get off the ground? Turbine engine. Why turbine? It's half the size and weight of a recipricating internal combustion engine, or you can say, twice the power. Now, imagine a car with an engine half as big and half as light, you could design a super-low drag configuration, with a low hoodline. That is exactly what VW is doing with the ultra-compact W engines(which have their faults), alloy engines and turbos.(exactly what BMW is NOT doing)
Let's extrapolate the upcoming 265hp 1.8t to the size of say the Audi 3.2 block (or God forbid the much-vaunted Nissan 3.5) That equals 471 hp-stock in a 3.2 V6. Any questions? Everyone knows the 1.8t should and could have a few more hp, like 225! Audi obviously has a plan to protect their market for the 3.0, and the Passat vs A4 issue insures we get a de-tuned engine. Anyway, I liked BMWs when I was 18, 20 years ago, but they seem to have stagnated BADLY. The cars are exactly the same! I had a '93 325i(gift) and it was cool when I was not spinning out, but to think how similar their cars are, 10 years later, it makes me ill. There always seems to be some creep who is so desperate to defend BMW as being the "Ultimate Driving Machine" they think Audi drivers are unaware of the 50-year-old RWD and I-6 configuration.
Save all the phoney reputation crap and the "service guys are mean to me" bull**** and TELL ME once and for all what BMW has over Audi. Exterior Design: long hood line, old=new dated styling Engine: heavy, bulky and LOW OUTPUT. AWD: quattro please. What else is there?
When the weight and compactness of the alloy Audi V6 is compared to the 'ol iron inline six it is a push-over, a knock-out to the first degree. I am still looking for the virtue of the BMW I-6. In a street car where economy and packaging is paramount, it is a DINOSAUR. Don't even try to say BMW is leading engine development, they are far behind and will soon be selling cars based on reputation and overall ride quality, like Mercedes and ...Lincon - ha ha!(they are now!)
A more compact engine makes for a shorter, more aerodynamic hood line, and it makes for applications in a smaller car. Nothing even close to the advanced geometry W engines on the horizon at BMW, I can buy one now at VW! 260 hp with an 8cyl engine that will fit in a A3? Can you say Steppenwolf? VR5-WTF? No variable ride heights like the Allroad, no aluminum space-frame technology like the almost 10 year OLD A8! No CVT or Multi-valve engines, no aluminum suspensions like Audi.
What the hell is going on at BMW anyway? Big Mistake in Winter. What's going on at Audi/VW is the new World Speed Records, about 10 of them. LeMans, MPG Worlds record since 1992, a full-size aluminum prototype 5000S w/turbine engine...over 200mpg, Coast-to-Coast in 1 tankfull. Take the Direct Injection from Volkswagen. VW Lupo takes 3 litres of Diesel to go 100km, about 78mpg. Thermal efficiency of 45%. Sadi Carnot's 1834 theoretical limit for a recriprocating internal combustion engine is only 59% efficient.(assuming no heat or friction loss!?)Conventional engines like BMWs are about 25%. A GM diesel is still below 30%, less than the obsolete TDI.
There is one engine spec I think is important power/weight, period. How does a helicopter get off the ground? Turbine engine. Why turbine? It's half the size and weight of a recipricating internal combustion engine, or you can say, twice the power. Now, imagine a car with an engine half as big and half as light, you could design a super-low drag configuration, with a low hoodline. That is exactly what VW is doing with the ultra-compact W engines(which have their faults), alloy engines and turbos.(exactly what BMW is NOT doing)
Let's extrapolate the upcoming 265hp 1.8t to the size of say the Audi 3.2 block (or God forbid the much-vaunted Nissan 3.5) That equals 471 hp-stock in a 3.2 V6. Any questions? Everyone knows the 1.8t should and could have a few more hp, like 225! Audi obviously has a plan to protect their market for the 3.0, and the Passat vs A4 issue insures we get a de-tuned engine. Anyway, I liked BMWs when I was 18, 20 years ago, but they seem to have stagnated BADLY. The cars are exactly the same! I had a '93 325i(gift) and it was cool when I was not spinning out, but to think how similar their cars are, 10 years later, it makes me ill. There always seems to be some creep who is so desperate to defend BMW as being the "Ultimate Driving Machine" they think Audi drivers are unaware of the 50-year-old RWD and I-6 configuration.
Save all the phoney reputation crap and the "service guys are mean to me" bull**** and TELL ME once and for all what BMW has over Audi. Exterior Design: long hood line, old=new dated styling Engine: heavy, bulky and LOW OUTPUT. AWD: quattro please. What else is there?
07-07-2002, 11:50 AM
#4
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Why so much hate :(
I don't know why but I see some Audi fans are antipathetic about BMWs. As a BMW owner and future (or possible) owner of A4, I don't really have problems with both makes. Well, I do not have a great length of car knowledges to my self, so I should keep it short. But thanx for the interesting info. 
07-07-2002, 12:03 PM
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I agree, with one caveat; The M cars.
While you're correct that many many people buy BMWs based on their reputation and ride quality, the range of M cars really do set the standard for driving enjoyment in full sized cars. Say what you will about BMW engineering, prices, service people (I agree!), but they do have an excellent level of overall driver involvment. I'd never give up my A4, but some of the most fun I've had driving have been in BMWs, specifically their M cars. And finally, why so angry?? I don't see why we can't see the strengths and weaknesses of ALL cars, without getting so pissed off. I'd defend Audi to the death, but there's no reason to go picking fights with other car people. When it comes down to it, it's a matter of taste.
And lastly: About specific output: The E46 M3 puts out 104 bhp/liter. That's pretty respectable.
And lastly: About specific output: The E46 M3 puts out 104 bhp/liter. That's pretty respectable.
07-07-2002, 12:09 PM
#7
Re: BMW=Members Only jackets, Regan-omics, Studio 54, and coke spoons not high tech cars!
<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/1259926.phtml">https://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/1259926.phtml</a</li></ul>
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07-07-2002, 12:13 PM
#9
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Glad you're a Audi enthusiast, but simmah down
I'm sure BMW is sticking to their guns for a reason: it sells! Our cars have gotten heavier, yet Audi is sticking with 170hp 1.8T: it sells! And lay-off bashing cool guys like Damon H. If you've ever met him, you'd know he sticks up for Audi's and just likes quality German cars in general. You have a nice car and you're an Audi enthusiast, just enjoy...
