Switched from Neuspeed to GIAC today: Neuspeed 1.5 vs. GIAC-S (more)
05-08-2003, 04:25 AM
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Switched from Neuspeed to GIAC today: Neuspeed 1.5 vs. GIAC-S (more)
<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/47390/neuspeed-giac-boost.jpg"></center><p>
Very special thanks to Jeff Moss at Torque Factory and Garrett, who took the liberty to comp me and provide installation of their new IBE2 switcher with a variety of programs.
The IBE2 including the following programs: Stock Program, Performance Program (Standard GIAC 1.2bar), Economy Program, Anti-Theft Program, and Valet Mode Program all integrated into my stock ECU.
The standard GIAC 1.2bar program is said to compare to the Neuspeed's 1.5bar program according to GIAC.
Prior to installation, the car was weighed in at approximately 3590lbs (empty tank + heavy stereo setup). An extensive VAG log was also performed on the Neuspeed chip prior to removal, monitoring elements including: boost, RPM, speed, and throttle position. This was done to set a baseline with the test of the GIAC programs to be installed. (Boost graphs provided below at 3rd gear) Some dyno tests should still need to be performed IMO to get some accurate HP/TQ results.
After installation, the car was warmed up for some test runs for the ECU to re-learn it's new programming, and tests were also performed in the same conditions and roads as the Neuspeed was previously at a 1-2-3 gear pull.
Impressions:
GIAC-S: Though the Standard program was made to only boosting at ~1.2bar, the car felt MUCH smoother compared to the Neuspeed. Spool up of the turbo is a lot more torquier. The power kicks in, and tends to hold and mellow itself out towards redline. The 4500-6000rpm range felt a lot stronger, for the program has allowed the turbo to hold it's boost, as well as hold it's power and torque. (I can now downshift and actually "feel" something)
Neuspeed 1.5: The Neuspeed 1.5bar program has been in my car for the past 2 months. It's power curve tends to spike at around 3500rpm, then drop in power from then on. It's initial "kick" feels a bit stronger than the Neuspeed, for it logged at 1.3bar (as opposed to 1.2) and feels a bit torquier, but would then quickly drop in power. The engine seems to hesitate for power at the 4500-6000 range.
The GIAC program proves to be much better for the mid-top end, while the Neuspeed will spike itself at low rpms, and run out of breath. From the "*** Dyno" alone, the GIAC program pulls much smoother in it's powerband. I have yet to see what the "X" and "XR" chip (which is still in development) will be able to do.
Many people tend to believe that higher boost (ie 1.5bar...which the car never hit) is always better...making other chips inferior. From my experience of tuning my previous car, sometimes a lower boost with proper A/F tuning may prove more beneficial, especially in a 91 octane pump gas environment. (Race gas + insane boost is a whole different story). My 94 Twin Turbo Supra pulled 3mph higher trapspeeds at 18psi (1.2bar) as opposed to 21psi (1.5bar). All turbos have it's "efficiency" range...which when out of it's realms, will begin to blow nothing more than hot air into the combustion chamber, thus raising EGT's and causing the ECU to retard timing to compensate (which what I saw w/ the Neuspeed's quick "boost-and-drop").
I am very satisfied with the standard GIAC program so far, and have yet to do some more extensive testing and tuning. During the installation, I DID find something pretty disturbing: My factory chastity belt was NOT replaced by Neuspeed. The bolts were grinded down and will tell ANY dealer that the ECU has been tampered with...when Neuspeed supossedely claimed that their chip was "undetectable".
I will keep you guys updated and posted with any changes and updates.
-Jeff
2003 Denim Blue QUATTRO 5-spd
Very special thanks to Jeff Moss at Torque Factory and Garrett, who took the liberty to comp me and provide installation of their new IBE2 switcher with a variety of programs.
The IBE2 including the following programs: Stock Program, Performance Program (Standard GIAC 1.2bar), Economy Program, Anti-Theft Program, and Valet Mode Program all integrated into my stock ECU.
The standard GIAC 1.2bar program is said to compare to the Neuspeed's 1.5bar program according to GIAC.
Prior to installation, the car was weighed in at approximately 3590lbs (empty tank + heavy stereo setup). An extensive VAG log was also performed on the Neuspeed chip prior to removal, monitoring elements including: boost, RPM, speed, and throttle position. This was done to set a baseline with the test of the GIAC programs to be installed. (Boost graphs provided below at 3rd gear) Some dyno tests should still need to be performed IMO to get some accurate HP/TQ results.
After installation, the car was warmed up for some test runs for the ECU to re-learn it's new programming, and tests were also performed in the same conditions and roads as the Neuspeed was previously at a 1-2-3 gear pull.
Impressions:
GIAC-S: Though the Standard program was made to only boosting at ~1.2bar, the car felt MUCH smoother compared to the Neuspeed. Spool up of the turbo is a lot more torquier. The power kicks in, and tends to hold and mellow itself out towards redline. The 4500-6000rpm range felt a lot stronger, for the program has allowed the turbo to hold it's boost, as well as hold it's power and torque. (I can now downshift and actually "feel" something)
Neuspeed 1.5: The Neuspeed 1.5bar program has been in my car for the past 2 months. It's power curve tends to spike at around 3500rpm, then drop in power from then on. It's initial "kick" feels a bit stronger than the Neuspeed, for it logged at 1.3bar (as opposed to 1.2) and feels a bit torquier, but would then quickly drop in power. The engine seems to hesitate for power at the 4500-6000 range.
The GIAC program proves to be much better for the mid-top end, while the Neuspeed will spike itself at low rpms, and run out of breath. From the "*** Dyno" alone, the GIAC program pulls much smoother in it's powerband. I have yet to see what the "X" and "XR" chip (which is still in development) will be able to do.
Many people tend to believe that higher boost (ie 1.5bar...which the car never hit) is always better...making other chips inferior. From my experience of tuning my previous car, sometimes a lower boost with proper A/F tuning may prove more beneficial, especially in a 91 octane pump gas environment. (Race gas + insane boost is a whole different story). My 94 Twin Turbo Supra pulled 3mph higher trapspeeds at 18psi (1.2bar) as opposed to 21psi (1.5bar). All turbos have it's "efficiency" range...which when out of it's realms, will begin to blow nothing more than hot air into the combustion chamber, thus raising EGT's and causing the ECU to retard timing to compensate (which what I saw w/ the Neuspeed's quick "boost-and-drop").
I am very satisfied with the standard GIAC program so far, and have yet to do some more extensive testing and tuning. During the installation, I DID find something pretty disturbing: My factory chastity belt was NOT replaced by Neuspeed. The bolts were grinded down and will tell ANY dealer that the ECU has been tampered with...when Neuspeed supossedely claimed that their chip was "undetectable".
I will keep you guys updated and posted with any changes and updates.
-Jeff
2003 Denim Blue QUATTRO 5-spd
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05-08-2003, 09:39 AM
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FYI, the X/XR will most likely require a clutch change.
The clutch is close to its limit with the current power that the GIAC chips are currently producing.
Test chips producing more power caused a vibration to occur that we originally thought was related to engine mounts, but is actually clutch slip!
Test chips producing more power caused a vibration to occur that we originally thought was related to engine mounts, but is actually clutch slip!