Wife got 2.5 Jaguar X type auto and I was really impressed
05-31-2003, 03:55 PM
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Wife got 2.5 Jaguar X type auto and I was really impressed
with the car and starting considering getting the 3.0 stick instead of an Audi A4 3.0. I know if I ask this board which should I get, the Audi will be the answer, and I am still leaning to an Audi but I was really impressed by the Jag. What do you guys think of a Jaguar 3.0 stick?
05-31-2003, 04:05 PM
#3
Our review of a 2.5. Later drove a 3.0 stick, which was
certainly more powerful although the engine wasn't any more exiting to listen to than the 2.5. Clutch was fairly easy to use, but short of any feedback.
__________________________
So we thought we might try to catch the last of the snow up at Tahoe, before it all melted. In the end we found the snow too slushy, and decided to go driving around the Sierras ( try highway 70, for good scenery, light traffic, and plenty of sweepers ). Normally we rent a Subaru Legacy of something basic like going to the snow. Nice car, but as exciting as $12 sneakers at Wal-Mart. I made a few calls to my favourite rental spots and Enterprise in Sunnyvale hooked me up with an '03 Jaguar X Type 2.5 for a killer deal and unlimited miles ( they can get C class Mercedes, Saabs. and Volvos too ). Goody I thought, I can see how it compares with the A4.
Keep in mind that I've worked at a shop where we repaired and restored Jaguars among other cars. I used to get plenty of seat time in all kinds of Jags.
The subject:
'03 Jaguar X Type 2.5. 5spd automatic, sunroof package w/parktronic, CD changer, and 17 inch wheels.
First of all, the appearance. Think muscular gymnast for the X Type, while the rest of family takes on the supermodel long and lanky look. You love it or miss it entirely. I don't think anyone can really object to the overall effect - which does hark back to the XJ series far better than the S Type does the MK series. The face is a little pinched and myopic looking, but not hideous. The paint is nice and glossy with minimal orange peel. No, the clearcoat does not extend around the inside trunk and hood, but both are finished with carpet and fire/noise suppression mats. The trunk can hold one medium-large sized travel bag, a snowboard ( w/one side of the split folding seat down ), boots, jackets, and computer case. The seat release is in the trunk, meaning you need to open the trunk if you want to lower the seats. They are also flimsy and easily knocked from their clips by a bag being shoved into place. The car we drove came with 17 inch wheels and Conti Sport Contacts. Under the hood we found lots of cheap black plastic cladding and even unraveling black electrical tape for that complete British car experience ! ;-)
The interior is an attempt to mimic Jaguars of old - but it fails dramatically. Once you get past expectations though, it's OK, if a little low rent for this class. All the little luxurious touches that distinguished Jaguars of old, are gone here. Chrome is minimal and most is plated plastic, not even pot metal. Things like switch gear, door bin trims, and dash, all lack those little jewel-like details that made old Jaguars so desirable despite their unreliability. The plastics are good quality and for the most part, line up with their neighbouring parts fairly closely. The wood is real, but lacks that coachwork effect of felling like it was custom fitted to the car. There is no attempt to sweep the lines of the door into the dash. The dash and cowl are quite high with a large slab of wood running from side to side to try and break up the visual mass. The gauges are attractive but sparse with tach, speed, temp, and gas, the only items shown. No trip computer. Windows are one touch all the way around. The door handle is far forward and is not illuminated at night. The double pocket door cubbies are a nice touch, with a small cubby below the grab handle for things like sun glasses, and a slightly larger one in the space below, for maps and the like. Neither can hold anything large, nor are they lined in rubber - which means things in them rattle - more on that later. There is only one cup holder next to the hand brake. The ash tray/power plug is not lined either, so change would certainly rattle. It's also hard to get the plug out, as it is buried behind the shift lever when in Park. The grab handles are damped, but the glove-box in our example was not - I've heard mixed reports on that. The headliner is classic mouse fur. The leather covers seating surfaces ( sides are pleather ) and is acceptable and certainly a cut above the Japanese offers, but falls short of classic British leather or the best from Germany. The driver's seat is power, while the passenger gets a manual seat. No lumber adjustment. When you are a hair over 5ft and 100lbs, no seat really fits snugly. The bolsters where minimal though. Good for running errands around town when you need to climb in and out often. Not so good for tackling backroads;-) You have about a 2 hour window after which your tailbone starts to ache. ( The gas release is down on the floor next to the seat rails. You get grease on your hands when you grope for it ) The steering wheel is adjustable for reach and rake. The seat even fits shrimps like me, without cramming me up against the steering wheel just so I can reach the pedals. There is a slightly ripple in the windshield glass. The moonroof is controlled via a single button looking almost like an aftermarket kit from ASC. No one touch here. Wind noise got loud at around 30mph, and started internal cavitation around 45mph. Wind noise is otherwise well contained, but soundproofing is sadly lacking with many outside noises intruding into the cabin. The standard stereo is terrible with muddy sound and almost nonexistent reception. I'm not even a car audiophile ! Buttons are easy to read and use. Same for the basic climate control system. Very intuitive, although I would prefer the climate control under the stereo instead of the other way around - I fiddle more with the stereo than the temp controls.
So what is it like to drive ? Both good and bad. This car is heavy ! 3500+lbs with auto. You feel the mass, but it never really hampers you, so long as you don't take it canyon carving. The engine is very willing and linear. It has an odd throbby, almost diesel knocking sound faintly heard at low rpms and part throttle. You will hear this engine at all times. Not unpleasant, but it's always there. As the tach swings past 4000rpms, the sound takes on a harder more metallic note. Not a Jaguar sound, nor a sound like the old Contour SVT - even though both have dual stage intake runners. Interesting, but not exciting. Better than Japanese V6 engines though. A peak of 178ft lbs of torque is available at 3000rpms, which means although the throttle and gearbox are willing and make you feel like you are flying, it takes patience to gain meaningful speed. It took quite a while to reach 110, although there were plenty of revs left on the tach. We got a respectable 22 to 28 mpg even when flogging the car up the passes.
The gearbox is a nice 5spd auto run through the traditional Jaguar "J" gate. It downshifts in a snap when in Sport mode, making the best use of the power at hand. It also resists freewheeling when you back off the throttle, so you can use compression braking to good effect. The shift pattern is annoying though because you can't see if you are in 2nd, 3rd or 4th on the hook side of the "J" because the shift **** blocks your line of sight, and there is no visual confirmation on the dash. It you blip the gas a little as you downshift, you can get smooth shifts. In either upshots or downshifts, we did catch the 'box napping though, and it would occasionally clunk a shift. You also can't manually engage 1st gear. We ended up in very heavy stop and go traffic at one point, and this would have been a nice feature to have.
Steering is sharp, fast, and has a tight radius. However, it tends to wander with grooves and the crown of the road. At extra legal speeds, it can be a bit nervous. Good feedback in normal driving, but a bit numb as cornering loads increase. You have to pay attention to the chassis, not the steering, for feedback in corners.
The suspension is by far the most confused. Crashing and causing the car to hop and quiver over sharp bumps and freeway expansion joints, it also keeps the car flat in almost any maneuver. Most unJaguarlike ! I could see from the corner of my eye, the dash, doors and seats move separately from each other of frequent occasions. The whole chassis thumps and twangs, but we noted only one tinny rattle from the passenger side B pillar. Overall course is retained no matter what, so long as you attend the steering wheel, but the car certainly likes it rough;-) Nothing like Jaguars of old that would lean over, hang on, and provide most of their feedback via the steering wheel and driver visuals.
The AWD uses a viscous coupling directing 60% of power to the rear, and 40% to the front under most conditions. I floored in it the mud, and the car did plenty of wiggling around while hunting for traction. ESP is optional. The rest of the time, it feels like a RWD that safely pushes in corners when pushed hard. No suprises.
In the end, I thought this was an exceptionally nice 25 to 28K car, not the 34K vehicle it really is. It's also not really a Jaguar in the traditional sense - even allowing for it's Mondeo sourced parts. If Jaguar hopes to invoke images of the past with it's new offerings, they might want to sweat some aesthetic details, since that has always been a large part of the Jaguar appeal. New owners or young shoppers might not notice, but the hard core Jag enthusiasts certainly will. Given sluggish sales ( Jaguar cutting production by 10,000 units this year ), it seems to be neither fish nor fowl. Too hard core a ride and plain interior will drive away traditionalists. Soft appearance and low performance figures will drive away sports sedan shoppers. How will it hold up ? Look to Contours here ( even though the older gen cars ). The firmness, some might say suspension harshness, may result in more squeaks and rattles in the future. For someone who finds the German offerings too logical, the Swedes too quirky, the Japanese too "me too", this is a good choice. Just stick with the 16 inch wheels if rough pavement is part of your driving routine;-)
__________________________
So we thought we might try to catch the last of the snow up at Tahoe, before it all melted. In the end we found the snow too slushy, and decided to go driving around the Sierras ( try highway 70, for good scenery, light traffic, and plenty of sweepers ). Normally we rent a Subaru Legacy of something basic like going to the snow. Nice car, but as exciting as $12 sneakers at Wal-Mart. I made a few calls to my favourite rental spots and Enterprise in Sunnyvale hooked me up with an '03 Jaguar X Type 2.5 for a killer deal and unlimited miles ( they can get C class Mercedes, Saabs. and Volvos too ). Goody I thought, I can see how it compares with the A4.
Keep in mind that I've worked at a shop where we repaired and restored Jaguars among other cars. I used to get plenty of seat time in all kinds of Jags.
The subject:
'03 Jaguar X Type 2.5. 5spd automatic, sunroof package w/parktronic, CD changer, and 17 inch wheels.
First of all, the appearance. Think muscular gymnast for the X Type, while the rest of family takes on the supermodel long and lanky look. You love it or miss it entirely. I don't think anyone can really object to the overall effect - which does hark back to the XJ series far better than the S Type does the MK series. The face is a little pinched and myopic looking, but not hideous. The paint is nice and glossy with minimal orange peel. No, the clearcoat does not extend around the inside trunk and hood, but both are finished with carpet and fire/noise suppression mats. The trunk can hold one medium-large sized travel bag, a snowboard ( w/one side of the split folding seat down ), boots, jackets, and computer case. The seat release is in the trunk, meaning you need to open the trunk if you want to lower the seats. They are also flimsy and easily knocked from their clips by a bag being shoved into place. The car we drove came with 17 inch wheels and Conti Sport Contacts. Under the hood we found lots of cheap black plastic cladding and even unraveling black electrical tape for that complete British car experience ! ;-)
The interior is an attempt to mimic Jaguars of old - but it fails dramatically. Once you get past expectations though, it's OK, if a little low rent for this class. All the little luxurious touches that distinguished Jaguars of old, are gone here. Chrome is minimal and most is plated plastic, not even pot metal. Things like switch gear, door bin trims, and dash, all lack those little jewel-like details that made old Jaguars so desirable despite their unreliability. The plastics are good quality and for the most part, line up with their neighbouring parts fairly closely. The wood is real, but lacks that coachwork effect of felling like it was custom fitted to the car. There is no attempt to sweep the lines of the door into the dash. The dash and cowl are quite high with a large slab of wood running from side to side to try and break up the visual mass. The gauges are attractive but sparse with tach, speed, temp, and gas, the only items shown. No trip computer. Windows are one touch all the way around. The door handle is far forward and is not illuminated at night. The double pocket door cubbies are a nice touch, with a small cubby below the grab handle for things like sun glasses, and a slightly larger one in the space below, for maps and the like. Neither can hold anything large, nor are they lined in rubber - which means things in them rattle - more on that later. There is only one cup holder next to the hand brake. The ash tray/power plug is not lined either, so change would certainly rattle. It's also hard to get the plug out, as it is buried behind the shift lever when in Park. The grab handles are damped, but the glove-box in our example was not - I've heard mixed reports on that. The headliner is classic mouse fur. The leather covers seating surfaces ( sides are pleather ) and is acceptable and certainly a cut above the Japanese offers, but falls short of classic British leather or the best from Germany. The driver's seat is power, while the passenger gets a manual seat. No lumber adjustment. When you are a hair over 5ft and 100lbs, no seat really fits snugly. The bolsters where minimal though. Good for running errands around town when you need to climb in and out often. Not so good for tackling backroads;-) You have about a 2 hour window after which your tailbone starts to ache. ( The gas release is down on the floor next to the seat rails. You get grease on your hands when you grope for it ) The steering wheel is adjustable for reach and rake. The seat even fits shrimps like me, without cramming me up against the steering wheel just so I can reach the pedals. There is a slightly ripple in the windshield glass. The moonroof is controlled via a single button looking almost like an aftermarket kit from ASC. No one touch here. Wind noise got loud at around 30mph, and started internal cavitation around 45mph. Wind noise is otherwise well contained, but soundproofing is sadly lacking with many outside noises intruding into the cabin. The standard stereo is terrible with muddy sound and almost nonexistent reception. I'm not even a car audiophile ! Buttons are easy to read and use. Same for the basic climate control system. Very intuitive, although I would prefer the climate control under the stereo instead of the other way around - I fiddle more with the stereo than the temp controls.
So what is it like to drive ? Both good and bad. This car is heavy ! 3500+lbs with auto. You feel the mass, but it never really hampers you, so long as you don't take it canyon carving. The engine is very willing and linear. It has an odd throbby, almost diesel knocking sound faintly heard at low rpms and part throttle. You will hear this engine at all times. Not unpleasant, but it's always there. As the tach swings past 4000rpms, the sound takes on a harder more metallic note. Not a Jaguar sound, nor a sound like the old Contour SVT - even though both have dual stage intake runners. Interesting, but not exciting. Better than Japanese V6 engines though. A peak of 178ft lbs of torque is available at 3000rpms, which means although the throttle and gearbox are willing and make you feel like you are flying, it takes patience to gain meaningful speed. It took quite a while to reach 110, although there were plenty of revs left on the tach. We got a respectable 22 to 28 mpg even when flogging the car up the passes.
The gearbox is a nice 5spd auto run through the traditional Jaguar "J" gate. It downshifts in a snap when in Sport mode, making the best use of the power at hand. It also resists freewheeling when you back off the throttle, so you can use compression braking to good effect. The shift pattern is annoying though because you can't see if you are in 2nd, 3rd or 4th on the hook side of the "J" because the shift **** blocks your line of sight, and there is no visual confirmation on the dash. It you blip the gas a little as you downshift, you can get smooth shifts. In either upshots or downshifts, we did catch the 'box napping though, and it would occasionally clunk a shift. You also can't manually engage 1st gear. We ended up in very heavy stop and go traffic at one point, and this would have been a nice feature to have.
Steering is sharp, fast, and has a tight radius. However, it tends to wander with grooves and the crown of the road. At extra legal speeds, it can be a bit nervous. Good feedback in normal driving, but a bit numb as cornering loads increase. You have to pay attention to the chassis, not the steering, for feedback in corners.
The suspension is by far the most confused. Crashing and causing the car to hop and quiver over sharp bumps and freeway expansion joints, it also keeps the car flat in almost any maneuver. Most unJaguarlike ! I could see from the corner of my eye, the dash, doors and seats move separately from each other of frequent occasions. The whole chassis thumps and twangs, but we noted only one tinny rattle from the passenger side B pillar. Overall course is retained no matter what, so long as you attend the steering wheel, but the car certainly likes it rough;-) Nothing like Jaguars of old that would lean over, hang on, and provide most of their feedback via the steering wheel and driver visuals.
The AWD uses a viscous coupling directing 60% of power to the rear, and 40% to the front under most conditions. I floored in it the mud, and the car did plenty of wiggling around while hunting for traction. ESP is optional. The rest of the time, it feels like a RWD that safely pushes in corners when pushed hard. No suprises.
In the end, I thought this was an exceptionally nice 25 to 28K car, not the 34K vehicle it really is. It's also not really a Jaguar in the traditional sense - even allowing for it's Mondeo sourced parts. If Jaguar hopes to invoke images of the past with it's new offerings, they might want to sweat some aesthetic details, since that has always been a large part of the Jaguar appeal. New owners or young shoppers might not notice, but the hard core Jag enthusiasts certainly will. Given sluggish sales ( Jaguar cutting production by 10,000 units this year ), it seems to be neither fish nor fowl. Too hard core a ride and plain interior will drive away traditionalists. Soft appearance and low performance figures will drive away sports sedan shoppers. How will it hold up ? Look to Contours here ( even though the older gen cars ). The firmness, some might say suspension harshness, may result in more squeaks and rattles in the future. For someone who finds the German offerings too logical, the Swedes too quirky, the Japanese too "me too", this is a good choice. Just stick with the 16 inch wheels if rough pavement is part of your driving routine;-)
05-31-2003, 04:40 PM
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I'd pass after test driving the X type and owning the A4 3.0 6spd for 31,000 miles.
The A4 is an amazing car. The X type is an average entry luxury sedan. I'd drive the X type to the dealer than test drive a A4. I think you'll realize how great of a car the a4 is.
05-31-2003, 04:56 PM
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I have an A4 3.0 Grandma has an X-type 3.0 (more)
Both cars are nice, but they are very different in character. The A4 is solid german sports sedan. The jag is a finely dressed up uper-level ford w/ a leaping cat on the front. The A4 definitely drives better and to me feels alot more like a younger person's car. Like I said, the Jag is grandma's.
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05-31-2003, 05:26 PM
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From what I've read (European Car long-term test) the X-type doesn't have the same
level of driver involvement or intangible "passion" that other European makes have. While styling is very subjective, I think that Audi and BMW make better looking cars. And from sitting in the Jaguar, it doesn't have near the same amount of room as the Audi does. But you have to decide what you want in a car, and if the Jag fulfills those needs, go for it! Just make sure and drive them back-to-back before you decide. Good luck, and let us know what you decide on!
